German camo question

I will also admit to using the scheme when I used to play World of Tanks, so…

It does look cool which is why we are attracted to it, but to be honest it reminds me more of Italian Reggio Aeronautica camouflage patterns.

A little bit closer to where we want to be. An Ausf H in Italy, May, ‘44. German Self-propelled Guns, Concord Pub., page 42.

Cheers!! Just what I was hoping for! I also bought the Ausf H from Tristar so perhaps I will do that one in the camo from the book. I wanted to do it as an Italian campaign one anyway!

These guys used an outlined multicolor scheme


Seriously though, there look to be several Panzer IIIs at Kursk that look like the could possibly have a similar outlined scheme. Could be a darker same color outline, or something as work by the Marder III and Stug III posted above.


About those Panzer Grey Panthers, let’s see them! Odd that Tom Jentz would have missed such glaring examples…

I believe this notion of late war gray panzers started with one of the ancient “Panzer Colors” books which the author has since freely admitted has numerous errors. The idea presented at the time was that gray was being used again to hide in shadows.

I’m by no means an expert, but very late war Panthers can often been identified by the distinctive factory camo patterns, be it D-B, MAN or MNH.

And of course, by a certain later date, orders were for a base coat of olivgrun, which may be a reason for belief in gray Panthers.

I believe too the idea that primer red as part of camo was later corrected as the result of mistranslation.


Found this referenced on an old forum. Illustration is said to be from a Squadron book.

Might be one of the sources for the grey Panther theories.


Panther in Bonn

PantherGlategreen (2017_09_08 23_47_37 UTC)

Take your pick…Museum paint, colorized, washed out green and brown or “Artistic License”.

I’ve got more where these came from…

Let’s not forget the Bovington Jagdtiger either, a classic!

I think you should get off the fence and say what’s really on your mind.


Considering how Mead93’s original question was about tri-colour camouflage, with outlined patches, I’m still not sure how we got into an argument about Panzergrau Panthers. We all seem to agree that the proposed scheme is certainly a gooer, as several photographs have been published here which clearly prove it to be so. I can certainly recall photographs of SSLAH Panthers in this scheme in Normandy, so it’s not limited by time, space or manufacturer. I don’t like the personal stuff, there is really no need for fellow modellers to slag each other off here. In any case, I think we can all agree that where WW2 German practice is concerned, never say never. I have myself fallen into the trap of saying that didn’t happen, only to have someone in the next post produce a photo I haven’t seen before proving it to be so. I have to say that after more than 50 years modelling and researching German uniforms and equipment, I have seen an awful lot of photos, but I still keep learning new things. I also have an MA in Military History, but if I’ve learnt anything it is that the more we know, the more we realise we don’t know! There are modellers on here who have specialised to such an extent that they can be considered experts on limited units or equipment. The people who bother me the most are the ones who make categorical judgements on colour based on their interpretation of old black and white photos, recoloured ones or museum restorations which have been less than sympathetic. If you want an example of sensitive well researched restoration, look at Tiger 131 or some of the Wheatcroft collection. Other examples are available. For the opposite, look at some of the schemes in Kubinka!


Wow!! I’m gonna put this here, and this will be my one and only reply, someone is SERIOUSLY butthurt, and it’s not Dan! Not sure where you’re getting your info from Whitney, but it is very outdated. (Bruce Culver’s Panzer Colors maybe? Bruce himself has posted on other forums that there were/are many errors within. The books were based on the info he had at the time, much more has come to light since then.) Whatever the case, the most current research supports what Dan posted. You might really want to look into it before you start name calling. Which I’m very sure will include me now, but apparently like you, I’m an old fart, and I’ll survive. Hope you have a better day!

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I think you are absolutely right, and to his great credit, one of the authors of “Panzer Colors” published an error document to correct some of their theories/statements that turned out to be wrong.

You’re also right that late-war vehicles can be identified, by factory, because of their standardized paint jobs.

Great illustration of the point here.

We can ignore paintings since they are not original sources - just someone’s interpretation. Some paintings are really well-researched and some aren’t.

We can also ignore repainted museum artifacts. We all know that errors get created there, sometimes without any attempt to be authentic.

So we’re left with the original documentation and the small number of original color photos. All of that, however incomplete, points us to factory-standard camouflage schemes in two or three colors, none of which were panzer grey.

We can all agree there is much we don’t know, but, that’s why we should confine ourselves to what the limited evidence shows.

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OK, great, can you share the documents that prove that? It’d be a great contribution to the research if true.


Analy retentive is the phrase you’re looking for.


As far as some of the paintings are concerned, some seem to be obvious fantasies, such as the grey Berlin Panther I posted.

Let’s see: it has zimmerit, no crew heater, but a late idler and chinned mantlet maybe also depicted with zimmerit — I can’t tell for certain at that resolution. Balkenkreuz is positioned as per MAN practice.

It would be very interesting to find actual documented proof of schemes such as this instead of mere angry assertions and blatant insults.

Jentz and Doyle are entirely silent as to this matter in their ground-breaking research so for now, I am going to go with them.

From what I can see, the factories were very fastidious as to their camo patterns up to the very end. This view is shared by others far more knowledgeable than me.

But hey, build a grey Panther if that’s your thing. :slight_smile:


I built a pink Panther.

I gave up on the old Tamiya kit when I found out how inaccurate it was.


I actually dig it!!

Don’t use it as a reference,
just sayin …
I think the upper track run dips down too quickly in front of the idler,
I should have tied it down to the next roadwheel looking forwards instead of the one closest to the idler…


There should be a constant cateneray curve from rhe sprocket to idler, with the track just touching the 2nd outer road wheel.

There was a ‘Pink Panther’ on Combat Dealers!

Driving forward