Jack Ryan on Amazon new season Ukraine

Well started watching new season today. Looks like this is going to be very interesting as it is mirroring the Ukraine, NATO, placing missles, and so much more.

A couple of things for me. my dad was a Lt Colonel when he passed away at 47 while working at the Embassy in Rome in 1990. We were in Germany in 80 to 83. I was well aware of or nukes in Germany even while there. this wasnt declassified until late 1998 I think. We were also running around with back pack nukes then as shown in video link.

Anyway those following might like this series.

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After having read all of the Clancy Jack Ryan novels, I tried watching the series. Aside from a few names, the series has nothing to do with the novels, especially in the characters themselves. I stopped watching after a few episodes.

As far as US backpack nukes go, they may have been classified, but they were something of common knowledge as to their existence in the 80’s within the US Army.

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Yup, I already knew that going in… cover me! :bomb::boom: :popcorn:

—mike

yeah, not as good as tom clancy’s still being alive’s stuff.

What did you think of the deputy russian relected in the show looking like zelinsky?

I kinda more ment the level of nukes period in Germany. The agreement was we were not to have anything running around in the country.

‘Spies in the Himalayas’
I know a guy that was on the American climbing team… Glowing personality, that chap.:sunny:

—mike

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Ill read up on this, never had heard of this one. :ok_hand:

That was a good read. I love hearing stories from heroes of ANY country going above and beyond and keeping quite of it.

You might like “aftershock” on netflix about the napal earthquake.

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I’ll put that on my Wish List whenever I resubscribe to Netflix.

—mike

I would’ve liked for them to do more with the Chris Pine version of Jack Ryan. I thought he was great in Shadow Recruit. I know they had to update the character to get the kids these days interested in it.

Has anyone else heard anything about a possible Red Storm Rising movie?

:beer: :cowboy_hat_face:

Well, US nukes in West Germany ranged from those backpack nukes, to various caliber artillery rounds, cruise & ballistic missiles, and free fall gravity bombs on strike aircraft standing alert. Numbers were known, and dictated under treaties starting when those went into effect. Locations could be surmised by the level of security at the sites, especially when compared with conventional forces. Some carrying system weapons were dual use with full nuke, chemical, or conventional warhead capability. Units had to practice their wartime NBC employment procedures during field exercises, as well as dispersing during real world high tension alerts.

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Asking out of curiosity. Are you stating as military knowledge or what the population of Germany believed?

May i ask were your info is from?

Not having been a citizen of West Germany, I can’t say what they did or did not know at the time. When I was in the service at that time, I was fairly well read up on weapons systems and their capabilities. I can’t speak for stuff prior to my service time except for what I’ve read or heard secondhand from vets of those periods.
I’m sure that there were West German citizens who would read open source publications like I did and learn much of the same information. I do recall on my first time in Munich in 1984 seeing a local there with a sigh reading (in German) “better a Pershing in the garden than a Russian in the kitchen”. But my gut tells me that they knew what was going on in their country.

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Im trying to figure a better way for me to say this. Not that what your saying is wrong, just depends who you ask and at what time period.

Easiest way to say this, Our governments position was telling us, we are not deploying nukes in Germany.

Germany’s position to its population thru government statements was the U.S. is not running around with nukes on our land.

The reality was thru pillow talk, or whatever level !@#$ slipped, who knows. But at 13 years old I should not have known more about or nukes than the average German did in 1983.

After watching episode 4 last night I wonder if messaging shots fired russia might have been in play.

Zelinsky addresses congress on the anniversary of Churchills address to congress. One day before amazon releases series with same story line of patriots in Ukraine except in CZ and political issues.

I watched Episode 1…it’s OK.

Tom Clancy books are heavy on dragging drama and bouts of action. A lot of the story has “Creative liberties” and it shows on TV such as spoilers below

…the enemy showing just at the right time as if “TV magically” cued to the location of the friendlies as if tipped off by the producer/director/writer. The liberal spraying of bullets and none of the friendlies get hit until that moment in time to progress the story when they all get hit as if aiming improved 500%. The protagonist hero being the sole survivor of a firefight encounter. The hero winning in a pistol (Jack) vs. a carbine or rifle fight (enemy).

So it’s TV and it’s semi-realistic and also not very realistic. It’s James Bond, Bourne Identity, and Jack Reacher combined. It’s entertaining for the most parts, but again, made for television.

Jack Ryan is a CIA analyst turned CIA Direct Action quasi-operative turned into the U.S. President in the Clancy novels. The Tom Clancy books having him as President removed most of Jack Ryan’s action and gave it to other characters.

That seems rather laughable, as many of the systems deployed in West Germany were designed to deliver nuclear warheads as their primary function. The Sergeant and Pershing Missiles, the Davy Crockett Recoilless Rifle (now that was one scary item to be assigned as a crew member of), and the “Atomic Cannon”. Newsreels of the time showed those items in development, testing at places like White Sands NM and Frenchman Flats NV, and finally on deployment in West Germany to face off with the Reds. In my last years of school I remember watching news stuff on the development of the “neutron bomb” and how that was to be deployed in Europe as a battlefield weapon. The European anti nuke movements were really in a tizzy over that item as they said it would make a nuclear war more likely to occur due to its lower blast damage, yet higher lethality via the enhanced radiation effects.

Anyways, check out this site sometime for a breakdown of who, with what, was where, and some personal photos and tales of the Cold War in Europe.

https://usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm

What we had to point guard at the special Ammuntion site behind Athlone Bks and the other one we did down at Hemer was pretty much common knowledge to us. Nukes. The Americans ran it from their citadel Ops bunker and tower, and we provided inner security in the compound, tower security and OPs and outer QRF force.

Trying to discuss this and not have it sound like a disagreement. Or know it all.

Maybe this example? we were not officially in Laos during vietnam. Did all the men that participated in the action know it? Yes, did the American people, no. Was it common knowledge in vietnam? Maybe some vets can chime in here. But the US stance was that we were not.

This was the review in 2020 to the declassification:

So far, the only NATO countries where the U.S. government has acknowledged that it deployed nuclear weapons are Germany and the United Kingdom, but the details remain secret.[6] The record of the stockpile negotiations also remains classified although archival sources on the Italian negotiations are available (to be discussed in more detail in Part II of this posting).

One of the key issues with the U.S. nuclear presence in Western Europe and U.S. guarantees for European security was the matter of consultations over the fateful problem of nuclear weapons use. This became an especially concerning issue within NATO once the Soviets began developing ballistic missiles. Even with the stockpile system in place, the U.S. still had official control of the weapons and members of NATO’s top decision-making body, the North Atlantic Council, wondered whether the U.S. would consult them adequately before making a nuclear use decision.

A never-before-published record of a NAC meeting in October 1960 illustrates the range of concerns about U.S. control of nuclear weapons and consultation with allies in a crisis: whether the U.S. would use the bomb without consultation or whether it would use the bomb in a crisis. A French diplomat argued that France “would not fear the U.S. using atomic weapons, but [feared] that the U.S. might not react.” He also declared that France’s “capability to launch atomic weapons would be pressure on the U.S. to do so.”

Part II of this posting will document developing State Department and congressional concerns about nuclear stockpile arrangements, including the extent to which the United States had “exclusive custody” over the weapons. Concerns about the security of the weapons and the risk of unauthorized use led the new Kennedy administration to halt temporarily U.S. nuclear deployments to NATO forces and to press for the development of Permissive Action Links (PALs) to tighten U.S. control of the weapons.

Another link to many resources on the issue. 19991020

Actual declassified documents: https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/news/19991020/history-of-custody.pdf

Now I am just trying to discuss this, but could you please post some link to your side of the versions that this was well know in the German population. And could you explain why documents would be classified on the subject that you say was well known?

I dont want to go deeper into this, but even the idea of nuclear reactors for energy was a super hot topic and still is in Germany. So please link me to a story touching on this known issue from 85 to earlier.