Thinking about getting another HobbyLink M123, but not sure if I need the single or dual winch version. We had a M15A2 trailer that only one of our drivers ran. We were the A co. so were support for the Battalion, so had the oddball equipment. Just wondered if this would have been a single or dual winch, since we had mostly singles and hauled landclearing dozers for 62nd and the scrapers and Clark wheeled Tractors for the rest of the battalion. Have a Tank Workshop M123 and a HobbyLink M123A1C and the M127 trailer and a Tamiya Dragon wagon and A2 conversion, so I need to see if I need the dual or single winch version. Then I can get another M127 for the other tractor. Anyawy, thanks for any help. Wayne
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Have a . . . Tamiya Dragon wagon and A1 conversion
(I take it you mean an M15A1 conversion, not an M26A1 conversion.)
Which M15A1 set do you have? I bought the Real Model set years ago and it misses about half the changes in the modification. Is there a newer one out there?
KL
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I had the Real Model, but now have the Hobby Link set. Wayne
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I guess my question should have been, Is the dual winch version required to operate with the M15A1 trailer? I know both can pull it, but do you need the extra winch to operate the trailer? Wayne
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Yes, to fully be able to recover disabled vehicle onto and off of the trailer, you need both winches.
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If you have the Hobby Link conversion, I’m pretty sure you mean the M15A2 trailer, not the M15A1. While visually similar, there are some differences between the two.
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I can’t vouch for it’s accuracy, but Des Kit does make a full kit of the M15A1 trailer. Looks good in the box, but again, I’ve never taken a detailed look at it to determine how correct it is.
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Not true. The dual winches only needed to be used simultaneously when a load higher than 45,000 pounds was being pulled. Otherwise one winch would absolutely suffice.
Using one is quicker to set up and puts less stress on the PTO.
Using both winches when it’s not necesary also creates synchronization issues - if you don’t synch both properly you can damage the load, the trailer, or the winch housing.
In fact, the 45,000 winch was capable of pulling a much heavier load by itself by running the cable through a snatch block, gaining mechanical advantage. Both Archimedes and Hero knew this back in the day.
In short - incorrect on two counts.
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It has nothing to do with weight or capacity of the winch. It has to do with safely pulling a disabled vehicle onto or off of the trailer. One winch is used as a brake and the other to pull the vehicle on or off. By the TM, both are needed for safe operations. Of course, one winch can handle the load and could be used, but that is why there are two winches on pretty much every heavy tank recovery/transporter vehicle (M26 Dragon Wagon, M911 CHETS, M1070 HETS, Faun SLT-50, Faun SLT-56, etc…).
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Yes, sorry, meant the M15A2. Wayne
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Eh, looks like Hobby Link also missed a lot of the changes. The inside cross-members (which were channels in the first place, not plates like Tamiya molded) were doubled in the M15A1 and the air tanks flipped end for end to make space. There was an angle welded over the steps on the gooseneck, the outrigger runway plates were replaced (no half circle cutouts but stake pockets to the outside), and more. That’s just for the M15A1, based on the modification order I have handy. The M15A2 conversion started with the M15A1 and added even more steel.
KL
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Any pictures of these changes? And the Hobby Link kit is the M15A2 conversion for the Tamiya kit, so the basic frame is still the Tamiya. Wayne
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Looks fairly simple to redo channels, looking at my Tamiya part, it has a ridge and the picture looks like they welded a plate on the sides that makes it flush. If that is part of the upgrade it would solve the problem of filling the c holes in the part. would just use thin sheet and put the stake holes in. Not sure what the angle over steps means? Wayne
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It’s not. First the Tamiya kit needs to be brought up to reality. Then, on the M15A1 conversion there were many pieces cut away and replaced, new pieces added, parts rearranged, and so on. The M15A1 conversion parts weighed 12,000 lbs and took 200 man-hours to apply. The M15A2 went from there, added another 3,000 pounds of parts (mainly doubler or “wrapping” plates to the structural members) and took 650 man-hours to incorporate.
Most of these model conversions appear to have been based on photos of trailers with vehicles on the deck hiding a lot of detail and without a close comparison to the M15. They don’t seem to consider that some of the structural members have been thickened to two or three times the M15 sizes. As I’ve said before, most scale modelers have a surprisingly poor eye for detail, considering the importance given to detail in the hobby.
KL
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First of all, not trying to start a fight. Since there is only what we have to work with and the slim chance anyone will make an accurate kit we have to work with what we have. Most structural changes wouldn’t be seen, so the conversions seem to cover most of what will work for all but the most demanding modellers. Oh, and I had planned to put a load on which would hide minor details! Just my opinion. Wayne
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Who do you think is fighting?
The existing conversion sets (and there are more than Real Model and Hobby Link) all fall woefully short of completeness. Even if you are going to hide things with a load on the trailer, the doubling of the side rails and gooseneck pieces is evident if you look at clear photos of the M15 and M15A2 side-by-side, not to mention the addition of the spare tire stowage on the upper deck. These companies ought to get that at least. If you are going to spend the effort creating a set, why not do it correctly? (*)
It’s been a common trend that many of the aftermarket purveyors are good scratchbuilders or 3D modelers but really don’t know what they looking at in photos and consequently miss a lot of the details and variations.
Whether you want to make an accurate model or a decent representation it’s going to be a lot of work to show what is visible in any case.
(*) People make that complaint about plastic kit producers, too, but I can forgive them. They have to work within a much larger world, driven strongly by the injection molding process and balancing costs to suit a range of modelers. Aftermarket companies, on the other hand, are selling to a niche market that is willing to pay a substantial premium to improve upon what comes in the kit box. There’s no reason why they shouldn’t be making their stuff to a much higher level. If I’m paying nearly as much for an upgrade or conversion than I did for the kit, it ought to be nearly perfect.
KL
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The Hobby Link set includes the spare tire and mount. They just don’t show it in most of their pictures.
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So, absent any more info, I guess I will get a dual winch M123 and another M172 to make up my motor pool. One for the Rome Plow, one for my D7 and one to haul some support tracks, maybe an M548 fueler and a generator trailer for Blade sharpening. At least an idea. Wayne
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