And the concept of an “example” is utterly foreign to you, then? The three-color camouflage scheme makes for a convenient example, because period color photographs exist that show the tonal variation in what was issued as single colors of pastes, due to the differences in thinning and application; it’s much harder to derive the same information from black&white photographs. Inspectorate 2 issued a directive on 17 March 1941 specifying the initial tropen camouflage, which specified that troops were to order paint directly from the manufacturers mentioned in H. B. Bl. 1940 part C page 180 item 535 and page 531 item 1269, introducing another source of variation in shade between suppliers. On 25 March 1942, Inspectorate 2 issued a new directive redefining the colors to be used for the tropen camouflage, which specified that troops were to obtain the paint through regular supply channels, eliminating the ability of a unit to buy what it needed for a particular color of paint from a single manufacturer, instead getting whatever the supply depot had on hand, again increasing the likelihood that repaints would be in different shades.
Ah, I hadn’t read the caption properly. It is from Lehr Batterie 901. IIRC the “Tropen” colours are a dark yellow/sand and a slightly darker green/grey colour, like Tiger 131 in the tank museum. This would certainly give the slight contrast shown in the original picture (i.e. the original black and white one). Googling “Lehr Batterie 901” shows it at Kharkov in 1943, which is presumably where the picture in question is taken. This puts it beautifully on the cusp of the changeover from Panzergrau to Dunkelgelb so actually anybody’s guess! The paint under the worn whitewash on the accompanying Sdkfz253 seems to match tonally. Looking at the black and white photo carefully, I believe I can see three distinct tones on the front plate.
Well, it’s the right time, place, and unit to be painted in Tropen 1. I agree with David @DByrden that this StuG III is in Tropen1.
Yes, it does LOOK like Tropen 1, but I’m not so sure as I am with Tigers.
Because I know that the Tiger factory was using Tropen 1 paint during and after the time when new Tigers were sent to Kharkov. If they were “tropical” painted at all, it would be Tropen 1.
But what about the factory that made this Stug? They might have been using Tropen 2 paint - it was certainly available. Can we check what paint they were using when they made, say, Stugs for the Mediterranean area?
David
Hi all,
Thank you all for the continued discussion, it really has been amazing! I found another photo posted to a random forum (scroll down to reply #17963), of a stug from 901 Batterie in Ukraine, early 1943 with the same camouflage. Based on the timing and location what do you guys think? It seems to indicate that the other pictures taken were from around the same time. Which based on the information provided here probably means Tropen? But again which colors are most likely?
If it’s “Tropen” then it’s the first Tropen.
The second one has a light base colour, comparable to Dunkelgelb.
David
The facts that it is winter, and the types of vehicles, it could very well be winter of '42 - '43, in which case the base color of the vehicles would most likely be dark gray. If white camoflage, it is very scruffy and dirty, and not looking very white any more (depending on the quality of paint to begin with, and what it was diluted with, and method of application, it might not have been very white when freshly applied).
Discussions like these are fascinating! You can talk colours for decades and rarely if ever come to a definitive conclusion… In this case we have a handful of black and white photos… And all people who knew for sure what the actual color was are dead… None of the two points above are an obstacle to creating beatiful, five way colour tables and scale models, and presenting them as if they were a historical fact. This leaves most modellers under an impression that we are talking well known and documented truth here, when in fact we can group most of our non-photo references into 2 categories: 1) well informed speculation and 2) complete colour happy fantasies. Most modelleras are also completely OK with their models falling into the category 2) - it’s supposed to be fun! - and I wish them all the good luck with their projects. And I guess it would be cool to take a minute and reflect on the fragility of human life and human memory.
It would be cool to keep in mind that of most things you would like to build its IMPOSSIBLE to get all the necessary references - because they are irreversibly lost to time - which shouldn’t keep you from trying and definitely shouldn’t keep you from building. Let us be conscious when we are “filling in the gaps” in out knowledge, and let us keep researching - with internet we now have very potent tool at the tips of our fingers.
On top of that I would like to also make a practical contribution here - it was asked, in case of “green on grey” camo where the green would come from. I would like to suggest, that with the progress Wehrmacht made in 1941 they probably captured large stocks of 4BO russian green - using these, maybe with something mixed in - maybe white? - would help to lighten up and add contrast to the dark grey their vehicles were already painted.
Thanks for reading and have a nice day!
Paweł
