Vallejo Paints Questions

That last video really does offer an interesting insight. I bought a bunch of ball bearings for all my paints and always shake the heck out of them. Partially cured paint could definitely be contributing to my problems. Further, since I switch hit with acrylics and enamels, maybe I am accidentally creating paint gum inside the nozzle.

We must contemplate these things upon the tree of woe.

Edit: I just learned that nail polish bottle shakers are a thing.

Thank you for trying to help, varanusk. I really am trying pretty much every suggestion made in this thread.

Since I cannot see the needle, I greatly fear damaging it, thus the retract and wipe. The paintbrush method seems fairly safe. I will give that a try. My Iwata Eclipse SBS(?) does not have a limiter. I have trouble with my hands (health stuffs) and just need to lump it.

I always try to thoroughly clean my airbrush between sessions and when switching from acrylics to enamels. The operative word is ‘try’. Over the last 11 weeks I have used generic lacquer thinner (can no longer purchase in California), Mr. Color Thinner (seems pretty good), Testors Brush Cleaner (not very good), Testors Airbrush Cleaner (not very good), Water (not very good as a cleaner but great to establish if an obstruction exists), Rubbing Alcohol (helpful but may be causing problems with the enamels), Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner (useless), and Vallejo Flow Improver (woops!). I have considered using Simple Green, Windex, Windshield Cleaner, and nuclear weapons.

The rest of you degenerates that read this, stay out of the gutter.

A nut is better then a ball. The reason I have heard is the ball can get trapped in the neck and a hard squeeze will pop the top of the paint bottle and cause a huge mess. The nut does not have this problem.

That makes sense. Nuts. General McAuliffe would approve.

Also, it occurs to be that a random orbit sander, flipped upside down, might make a pretty good paint shaker. MacGyver would approve.

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But I thought my problems start with a loose nut in the spray booth… :grin:

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I think I may have the solution to this problem. I just purchased it today so I have yet to try it.

You need Vallejo Airbrush Flow Improver.

According to the Amazon reviews, the Vallejo AIR clogs the airbrush and dries at the tip, but with Vallejo Airbrush Flow Improver, these issues are resolved and the airbrushing sessions go smoothly.

I know from my airbrushing experience that Vallejo AIR does clog the airbrush and Vallejo Airbrush Thinner doesn’t resolve the clogging so I’m hoping that Vallejo Airbrush Flow Improver will prevent the clogging, splattering, and sputtering when airbrushing.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=vallejo+airbrush+flow+improver&crid=G2SIADIFFOMI&sprefix=VALLEJO+aIRBRUSH+FLO%2Caps%2C148&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_20

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It makes a big difference, at least for me. However, the most recent Model Air bottles I have got seem to flow much better without any addition.

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I’m an acrylics airbrush guy who uses Vallejo Model Air for 90% of my airbrushing (Mig Ammo, Mission and AK Real Gen 3 for the rest) and I brush with Vallejo Model Color mainly.

The thing about VMA is that because it is finicky at first if you are used to enamels or Tamiya etc, and most don’t have the patience or perseverance to stick with them to learn them and be able to use them properly. They try them a couple of times, don’t get the same results they get with Tamiya and so on, so bin them off as a bad idea.

There are a few reasons why VMA is amazing (in my opinion):

  1. it is more consistent across its colour range than the likes of Tamiya. What I mean by that is there is less difference in how the high pigment colours like white and yellow behave vs the lower pigment colours like your greens and browns and so on, than you get with enamels. Tamiya white behaves very differently to Tamiya dunkelgelb etc, for example - it requires a totally different thinning ratio and needs mixing a lot more. Vallejo has a small difference but its much less.

  2. You can thin VMA with water just fine, same for VMC.

  3. It is advertised as being sprayable from the bottle and it is. You can use it that way for small sprays, though it will tip dry fast if you try it for bigger sprays. It is really easy to clean if you use water and Vallejo cleaner. Not a problem at all. This means for big builds, particularly aircraft, where you have sessions with the airbrush needing to put down several colours etc, VMA is really easy.

  4. It isn’t especially toxic and will not give you cancer. Neither will the thinners or cleaning fluids. I love Tamiya paints but the various thinners and cleaning solutions are NASTY and will do genuine harm to you if you aren’t using a mask and spraying in a well-ventilated place.

  5. The colour range is massive and it is available everywhere pretty much. It is considerably cheaper than Tamiya or AK as well.

  6. once down and dried, VMA is amazingly durable for an acrylic and cannot be washed away with water or chipping fluid like Mission Models does sometimes.

The thing to understand about VMA is that a couple of drops of retarder and around 20% thinner in the cup relative to the amount of paint in there will go a long way provided you mix it really thoroughly. The amount of guys I see on Youtube who bung the paint then the thinner into the cup and then give it two stirs with a cocktail stick or whatever is astonishing - this will (obviously) not work and create problems for you. Mix it in the cup thoroughly. If you think you’ve mixed it enough, mix it some more. If you find mid-spray half way down the cup the mix changes then you’ve not mixed it enough - this is simply the (lighter) unmixed thinner rising above the (heavier) paint in the cup. It goes without saying that having a poorly mixed thinner / paint mix in the cup will not spray properly. Same for the retarder: if you don’t mix it properly then its not going to work as advertised, is it?

I do use Mig Ammo sometimes and find these a lot more difficult to predict because sometimes they are pointlessly thin out of the bottle (no matter how you shake them) and sometimes they are so thick they need a lot of TLC before you can put them anywhere near the cup. What I like about them is you can use Vallejo thinners and retarders, brush cleaners and so on with them with no issues - they are seemingly very similar to VMA chemically speaking. Not having to carry a separate set of thinners, cleaners, retarders and so on for MiG is helpful. And I will say their colours are more accurate than VMA - their dunkelgelbs especially are really nice. That they fit nicely into my VMA-dominated workflow is the main reason I have them.

Another thing to understand about VMA is that there isn’t an ideal pressure to spray at - some other paints don’t like going over 25 or under 10, but as long as you’ve really well mixed it in the cup, the paint will work for what you want to use it for. I tend to stick at around 20 and it will do as it is told, but as I say, you can push it up or push it down quite dramatically. I like to mist my base coats on over a black and pre-shaded primer layer and build up the layers. VMA with retarder in will give you the time to be able to put three or four layers down in one spray if you take your time. It will crack if you spray on top of wet paint but if you are misting it down, keeping the airbrush moving the whole time and not allowing it to concentrate it dries in ten seconds flat. The retarder is there to stop (delay!) it drying on your needle. So I mist on the base coat and build up the layers until I am happy and want to let it dry so I can move onto highlights. You can spray (correctly mixed and thinned) VMA up to 30psi with no issues. It goes down uniformly and levels off like an absolute dream. I have yet to find a paint, acrylic or otherwise, that levels off like VMA does.

For the close in work where you need to get the needle tip in within an inch or three from the model, you can drop it to 10 or 12psi and it behaves just fine as long as you’ve mixed it properly and thinned it properly. I’m not saying other paints don’t do this, but I am saying that I have not got to the level with any other paints that I am confident of it staying with me it very high or low pressures. As with all things it is a case of experience and using that to be able to judge things consistently. I put the time in with VMA and it works for me.

I also think the Vallejo “ecosystem” is nice as well - something that doesn’t get enough credit. I use Vallejo primers almost exclusively because I like the colours (their red oxide is really great), I like how hard wearing they are, I like how hairspray doesn’t hurt it, and I like that they level off like a wonder. I know that when I spray VMA or brush VMC over Vallejo primer, I will not have any uncool surprises. I also know that Vallejo chipping fluids when I don’t want to use hairspray will work similarly nicely. I know that no matter how much or how little Vallejo thinner, retarder or whatever will behave predictably and I wont get any nasty surprises.

I don’t use much Vallejo varnishes just because I prefer rattle can clear coats and Mr Color/Gunze cans are excellent, but if I did airbrush clear coats I would likely use Vallejo. Knowing everything you use will play nice with everything else is good for the old stress levels.

I have a feeling one of the main things that folks complain about is airbrush dramas, clogging, stubborn sludge, difficulty to clean etc, and this is common theme when discussing VMA. It goes without saying that you have to use Vallejo thinners and retarders and airbrush cleaners. Using products that are optimised for a different brand of paint (which is chemically different) will create problems. Tamiya X-20 and VMA does not play well together, for example. Then you get the indignant “I didn’t thin it with a different brand!” and they are probably telling the truth.

The problem is, I think, is that folks clean their airbrush down after spraying enamels or hybrids etc with Tamiya X-20 or IPA or whatever and don’t flush it out properly with water afterwards. Then you have a lovely shiny clean brush but with a layer of IPA or X-20 or whatever inside and when you add the Vallejo paint into it it reacts. You may not even remember what you cleaned it with last time but the residue stays in the brush even when it has dried. That is more than enough to give you major headaches when the VMA goes into the cup. All things being equal it is just smart practice to not leave cleaner in the brush when you are putting it away after use - rinsing it through with water is a good idea for a lot of reasons.

VMA reacts nicely to being cleaned with very hot water when you are cleaning the brush down in a way that enamels don’t. Any residual little bits come out nicely and I almost never need to use the pipecleaners or cleaning brushes that came with the Iwata cleaning set if I am spraying VMA. Again, I do think thinning the paint properly does help a lot here too.

Something else to bear in mind is that, because it is an acrylic, VMA will dry faster than most enamels and is more susceptible to tip dry. That is a fact of life for all acrylics. I believe this is only a problem if you are using a “crown” or “flower” style nozzle guard on the tip of your brush. Flat tip guards are simple to just gently wipe on a wet sponge when it starts to spot and will go a long way to solving this tip dry issue. Another helpful hint I’ve learned is to always have a nicely oil lubricated needle and to spray water through the airbrush before you put paint in the cup just to ensure everything is nice and wet. It really helps with tip drying.

To summarize -

VMA is fine. You just need to know how to use it and not treat it like Tamiya or whatever and expect the same results. Lots complain about it but once you suss out that the key is a couple of drops of Vallejo retarder and 10-20% of Vallejo thinner and that you really really really need to mix it properly in the cup, you’re away. I maintain that used properly with the aforementioned points in mind, you can get world class results with it that are as good as anything you can obtain with lacquers, enamels, hybrids or whatever else.

Sorry for such a long post.

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Thanks, Peter.

I purchased some Flow Improver maybe 6 months back and have used it ever since at the rate of 3 drops per color cup. (My airbrush is a side loader.) It delays dry tip but does not completely cure it. The length of delay depends on heat, humidity, paint line, paint color, and the amount of Flow Improver used.

Game Color paints have different issues that Flow Improver will not solve.

Model Color paints require significant thinning in addition to Flow Improver.

High heat and low humidity really mess with Vallejo acrylic paints.

My side loading airbrush clogs rather easily because the color cup is not the greatest design–the path through the cup goes through two 90 degree bends. I ordered a second cup–more of a bottle–and hope that will solve more issues. It will allow me to switch from paint to thinner and back at will.

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Wow that’s a very detailed and thorough explanation of the use of those paints Chris. Excellent job. I’ve always heard mixed reviews of VMS paints; I still use Tamiya but I’m in the process of switching to AC Real colors.
I did use VMA on an Israeli Nagmashot several years ago because I wanted to try them and the color Sinai Grey (or whatever it was ) was already available right out of the bottle. I remember thinning them with water and the first try resulted in a watery mess. I soon found out not to thin them so much and got a nice finish.
A couple of my figure painting friends who sometimes dabble in armor would find this very informative.
I’ll stick with my Tamiya and AC, but I do use Vallejos for my figures and love them.

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Yeah, they do need less thinning for sure. I had the same experience - what initially attracted me to them was the idea of thinning with water. I remember doing about 50/50 and it was like washing up water. I actually tried to spray it to see if it was just me and it was a mess. No coverage, spider webs all over the shop even at low pressures.

I’ve also tried to thin VMA with X-20 and Mr Color levelling thinners and both were an interesting and informative experience that I am not keen to repeat.

I think really it is personal choice. As I say, I spent time on VMA (ostensibly because I’d bought a big box of them before trying them and wasn’t ready to bin them off so persevered) and it takes time to get out of the muscle memory of what you are used to with other paints. I started on Tamiya when I got into the hobby about 3.5 years ago, and switched to pure acrylics for health reasons after about four or five months. I think the fact that I never got really proficient with Tamiya did me some favours when re-learning for VMA as it wasn’t that ingrained if that makes sense, the “that looks right” eye judgement wasn’t really hard set in my mind. I can imagine the transition for more experienced modelers would be more difficult.

VMC / Panzer Aces is a funny one - I have only ever had cause to airbrush it once and found it incredibly thick and reluctant to mix, you have to add a lot more thinner or water vs what you would use for VMA and it really does need proper mixing. If I ever needed to do it again I would likely mix it separately in a shot glass or something and then put it into the cup. Luckily I don’t have cause to use VMC for airbrushing and like the Lifecolor paints I have, they are 99.99% a furry stick thing.

Someone recently gave me some feedback on my figurework (which I fully acknowledge is a weak area in my repertoire) that I do not thin my brush paints down enough, and I’ve always found this a little difficult to understand as I really do and very often it is almost a glaze by the time it goes down onto the model and requires several coats. The comments come from the finish I’ve been getting that make it look like the paint is thicker than it is. I only use water with brush painting and I am starting to wonder whether it is the fact that I use water instead of Vallejo thinner for my brush work that is causing the issue. I have some figures to do for the completion of my diorama I’m working on so will report back to see if using Vallejo thinner makes a positive difference or not.

What type of water are you using?

Some folks like to “paint” with a glaze and the number of layers is not an issue. They feel it gives them more control and breaks up the monotone look better.

Just tap water. Here in the Netherlands it is pretty benign.

Glazing figures is my go-to but only works in so far as you arent adding camo spots/patterns etc. If these are needed then you need to change method.

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I use filtered water from my refrigerator for my figure painting but also use Vallejos Retarder to aid in blending. I made the switch about 15-20 years ago from initially using Humbrol and oils for the flesh tones.

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Alright, I’ll look into that, thanks. I have a water filter on my fridge so this might work out okay. I’ll let you know how it goes, cheers.

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A bottle of distilled water on the supermarket is really cheap and lasts a long time, for those who do not have other source (filters, dehumidifiers, etc.)

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Absolutely. I have a gallon jug that I fill up from my fridge. I do have gallons of distilled water but I use that for my CPAP machine lol. I have to say, my tap water is fine and I’ve never had a problem mixing it with acrylic paints. Consistency of the paint is critical as I’ve found out in my experience painting figs.

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Around here the tap water is almost solid chalk, so ionised water is a must! But as said before, it’s easily cheap enough for my volume of painting…

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Vallejo range is almost exclusively what I use. I also like how the Model Air range brushes for small work.

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