As a modeler with somewhat (hopefully) of an artistic eye, there is NO WAY I am going to cover up my handiwork and the quality detail of an expensive scale model with a coating of heavy scale mud. Some will do this but it is not for me. (IMHO)
Dust shows detail and I love it, mud hides detail (and also hides the paint) and I hate it on a model. (Just my opinion) Hiding my model is the LAST thing I would ever want.
Clearly a lively debate, and as long as there’s no animus, Armorama is the better for it - in my opinion(!)
I know I’ve posted these images before - or at least some of them, but here’s a Chally 2 after around 3 hours or so on the training area one Saturday morning:
Well that mud doesn’t hide the detail but I admit, without a high pressure hose we are never going to know what color those road wheels are.
I often feel the same way, and have done many models with little to no weathering for just that reason. But dirt and mud are a reality, sometimes it has to be added.
As to what the book/SOP says, I wont go into that, it is what it is. But the reality is that wheels often got painted in a two-tone scheme.
This is a photo of an unrestored wheel from a Hetzer in Poland.
I love this one, every wheel is two-tone, the photo was taken as they were painting it!
And something a little more modern.
Granted, these are the exceptions, most vehicles have the wheels painted according to the book. But right or wrong, it does happen!
Ken
Jeez Ken, you’ll probably hate my models; if they’re not slathered in mud or covered in dust, they’re groaning beneath cam nets!
Oh, not at all, I do that too! It just depends on the context of what I am trying to show. Case in point:
Ken
Thank God for that(!) Nice work.
I doubt any grunt would bother spraying the wheels with camo paint, certainly in the field because he could see it would just come off with the mud/grime already on them. OK big wheels like the Hetzer’s clearly an exception, although even with directly opposite colours hard-edged painted on a disc such as half lime green & half crimson red, even at low speed when rotated the effect rapidly becomes a mid grey so tertiary colours like olive green & a brown over yellow ochre would have zero chance of scintillating/vibrating at any distance at all. And that’s before any mud. 
(Sorry Tankerken I meant to reply to Mike)
There have been a few, in September 2007 Paul Allen was killed by a splinter of wood from a shattered lance passed through the eye slit of his helm and pierced his left eye and deep into his brain. Ironically, this exactly mirrored the death of King Henri II of France in 1559 while jousting with the Captain of his Scottish Guard, Gabriel Montgomery. Mr Allen lingered in hospital for about a week after the accident before succumbing to his wound, King Henri for eleven days.
Mutilations are more frequent. At the 650th Anniversary re-enactment of the Battle of Crécy (in France) in 1996 Mike Perry (of Perry Miniatures) lost his right hand and part of his forearm when loading a blank charge into a bombard. This led to a secondary career as a “stump man”, appearing as a maimed extra in “Saving Private Ryan” and “Band of Brothers”. He and his twin Alan also appeared as members of Theoden’s Guard in “The lord of The Rings” movies, having visited New Zealand as part of their work sculpting the miniatures for Games Workshop’s gaming tie-in with the movie. This may be why one can see some Rohirrim with their shields on their right side and their weapons in their left hand… It appears cannon were insufficiently hazardous for their tastes as they later acquired a Stuart Light Tank.
He may have been (comparatively) lucky, I understand a cavalryman of the “Sealed Knot” had his scrotum (and contents) carried away by a Pikeman’s weapon…
Cheers
M
I understand that completely. You want to show off your work. Personally, I like the muddy look. I used to do all my vehicle models in “motor pool” condition, but once I learned a few different techniques, I’ve really had fun doing them to show heavy mud or dust.
I will point out here that I don’t see any of those active German combat tanks pictured above as being so muddy that I can on longer see their road wheels, suspension and their coloration.
In regards to that aspect of the photos that I chose, I chose them specifically to illustrate the fact that some vehicles did indeed not follow the single color SOP, and had multi color road wheels and in those particular cases, that was clearly visible.
There are some great photos above of how dirty the running gear can get in very short order. I love muddy tanks because it’s natural for them in many operational environments.
All I can say in response is that I have seen it done more than once and I have witnessed the negative “strobing” effects. Which is even more pronounced the more “high contrast” the two camo colors chosen might be. (Such as dark gray and tan.)
As to the whole idea of the heavy mud, as I said at the outset, that is my personal preference and not everyone’s cup of tea. I don’t usually do motor pool/parade ready treatment either but a highlight coating of “heavy dust” will often show off more detail then any “spit and polish” super clean machine ever could.
If I would want to cause an even bigger stink here, I could also say that I am totally opposed to the whole idea of “panel shading” or “panel highlighting” on our armor models. - Yes this panel treatment does look quite lovely and these “painted ladies” always seem to win big in the “closed top armor” competitions. However I have yet to see an actual AFV look anything like that, whether in the field, in the motor pool or in a Museum, so I choose to avoid this paint treatment. It is the armor equivalent of “lipstick on a pig”. (IMHO)
As to reenactor injuries, I do know one guy who lost his entire thumb in a tank during a reenactment while trying to deal with a dud round (blank shotgun shell) that then cooked off as he was extracting it from the breach.
That does make sense. But I will ask at what distance are you seeing the AFV when you notice this effect, and and what relative angle & height? Distance alone tends to tone down colors, as the “scale color effect” folks will point out. Lighting & weather conditions will also have an effect on the visibility. All those variables, plus others, do come into play.
I would also like to stick the knife in here.
WWII German armour, particularly during the latter stages of the war, would have been much more likely to have camouflaged the wheels were paint to be available - because, the Allies had complete air supremacy, and the Germans mainly moved their vehicles under cover of darkness. Hence, it wouldn’t matter what colour the wheels were.
But, it would have been far more advantageous to have a full camouflage scheme were you in a static position during daylight…
Just saying.
Stikpusher ~ to answer you question; As I recall, I was within 100 to 500 feet of the vehicles in question, at ground level with the vehicles moving at right angles to my line of sight. On a relatively clear but very heavy overcast day. (low cloud ceiling.)
Kuouli ~ almost ANY form of camo will work best when the vehicle is stationary. My comments here only come into play when the same vehicle is on the move.
Circles of uniform colour are very rare in nature.
We were told that the worst give-away of a camouflaged truck were those
dark grey, almost black, perfect circles formed by the tires.
We were told to cover the wheels with masking paper or anything that would
completely cover the wheels.
O OO = three axle truck
Again Robin, one could almost say there are two different sets of camo rules: one for moving vehicles and their wheels and another for vehicles (wheels) on the move.
As far as I am concerned vehicle camo at least in terms of paint only serves a purpose for static vehicles waiting in ambush. The human eye is exceptionally well tuned to pick up movement and I highly doubt a 60 ton vehicle kicking up dust would be masked by paint
This is an interesting topic and it prompted me to have a quick look over some of my old builds in the display cases. There are several that have been painted from schemes on instructions which have multi colour paint on the wheels, including the Takom Kingtiger, which was painted to reflect the Bovingdon vehicle (so read into that what you will). There are plenty that I’ve used “generic” schemes on too, but even where I have painted the wheels, even a heavy “dust” coat almost completely obscures the colours (I almost never use heavy mud, as I don’t want to obscure the fine detail - I’ve paid a lot of money for it, so I want to see it!). The one version of the Hetzer I have, the scheme showed solid colour on the wheels, albeit different colours on each wheel. I have to say I can’t really see the “strobe” effect being an issue, although I accept it can be there, having seen vehicles running at re-enactments including “Tankfest” at Bovingdon. The biggest problem in Normandy was actually seeing German vehicles at all, as they were so well camouflaged UNTIL THEY MOVED. The Germans had learnt a lot about camouflage from the Russians, who were past masters at it.
Can’t say that I have heard or seen much as to Russian camo.
I always though it was the WWII Germans who were the masters of the art form.
The Russians didn’t paint vehicles as much but tended to do stuff like this.
My personal favourite
