Hello All,
I have an Osprey New Vanguard book on the panzer IV. On page 25 there is a color plate the shows a panzer IV Ausf. B or C that supposedly participated in the Normandy campaign. Does anyone have any information on early panzer IV’s (75mm short barreled) that made it to the late stages of the war?. The information on the plate said that this vehicle was painted dark yellow with broad dark green stripes. It would be interesting to do an early in a three tone scheme. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks & God Bless You All,
Joe <>< 
Yes - more common than you might think. Various German memoirs of the period refer to short-barreled Pz IVs and even Pz IIIs. Normandy - in fact France generally - was considered a low priority area pre-D-Day compared to the Eastern Front, so few units stationed there got top-of-the range AFVs as quickly as units in the East. There were also training units in the area who generally had older stuff anyway.
I was just reading something about this while doing some research for my Panzer iv project. And I came across a few photos that show a short barrel panzer iv in dark yellow with green bands of camo. Don’t know if this is in fact Normandy though, or if it’s even real……found this pic, just for discussion purposes.
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Hey Guys,
Thanks for the replies.
metalhead85,
The photo looks almost identical to the color plate except the plate shows a dark yellow lower hull and running gear.
God Bless You Both,
Joe <><
That photo is colorized, says so right on it. Other than that, it does appear to be authentic.
Ken
There are other images knocking around in books that show short-barreled Pz IVs in France - not a vast number of images but they do exist.
As Ken said, that image is colourised (but at least they have the decency to watermark it as such).
I saw the same picture somewhere but wider angle and the road is lined with thick hedges both sides. My guess is that it’s Normandy
Lol yes it does, didn’t even notice it I was so focused on the tank itself. May have to do one of these the more I look at it……
Also of note on this tank is the mix of different types of caps on the road wheel hubs.
21st Panzer Division was reforming in Normandy after being destroyed in North Africa. They were given older Panzer IVs, Panzer IIIs, captured French Tanks and some of the conversions on those captured tank chassis. When D-Day happened they used those vehicles in combat.
Regards, Bob
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Dead right Bob. That pictured Pz IV is usually attributed to 21PD.
Hello All,
Thanks to all who took time to help me with information and pictures.
God Bless You All,
Joe <><
Hello All,
Since there is information confirming the presence of early panzer IV’s at Normandy, I have a follow up question. Since the early panzer IVs were produced before the use of zimmerit, would any have had zimmerit applied after their entrance in to service? My understanding is that zimmerit was applied at the factory but there were instances when it was also applied in the field. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks & God Bless You All,
Joe <><
Some may have had zimmerit in the field, especially if they were in units that also had newer tanks wearing zimmerit. You would need to look at photos of the tank you want to build, see if it has it.
Ken
Hey Ken,
Thanks for your response. I take the lazy/easy way out when it comes to modeling. If there is a chance that some early panzer IVs at Normandy didn’t have zimmerit that is the way I’ll go. I take a very general approach when building. I don’t try to replicate any one vehicle specifically. I think it would be interesting to do, say a panzer IV D, in a three color scheme.
God Bless You,
Joe <><
If I recall correctly, von Luck’s “Panzer Commander” mentions specifically a Panzer IV with the “short gun” taking part in a counter-attack near Caen.
For the record, I have seen all manner of Panzer IV “kurz” in action 1943-45. Quite often they have schurzen and or zimmerit.
Somewhat off-topic but similarly, zimmeritted and skirted Stug III kurz can be seen in mixed units.
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Welcome to the site!
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In one of my many publications on panzers in Normandy, these are a couple of B/W (uncolorized) photos of short-barrel (aus. D maybe??) parked outside a French inn, with the crew lolling about after having bought some provisions, including a quantity of cider. A woman is leaning out an upstairs window smiling and talking to the tank crew. The tank has a wide light-colored stripe, vertically, on the glacis. The photo caption states it is just pre-invasion.
There is also the above-mentioned (by ClirPork) of a short-barrel Pz. lV which was accompanied by a later Pz. lV, both from 21st Pz., plus an attached early Tiger ll. making a brief couter-attack.
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Hi Joe.
An interesting subject to discuss.I bought a couple of models to make Panzers in Normandy.Ive got a 72nd Mirage hobby kit and recall its a Panzer C model with that Camouflage.Im sure i have a 1.35th kit also,I was intrigued by the colour plate in the old Osprey book on Panzer 1vs.I think the guys were doing some work on the transmission.
Happy modelling to you.
Richard
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Yes, indeed.
I just finished it and Lt. Hans Hoeller’s 'D-Day Tank Hunter" (I’m trying to learn everything I can about Pz Grenadier Regiment 192,125, and the 21st Pz Div’s role in those initial hours of the invasion.
Anyways, I was listening to Hoeller’s book (audiobook) and he mentions specifically a mixed kompanie in support with the "older model IV’s with infantry support guns).
I was going over some sources last night and saw Panzer Ersatz und Ausbildungs Abteilung in Normandy that was equipped with all kinds of unusual equipment for the period. Amongst a fleet of captured French vehicles, It included some long barrel panzer III’s and I believe some short barrel IV’s but I’d have to check again.
Anyways, people have more than answered well here, but the summary is yes, a few older Panzer IV’s and even some Panzer III’s were found in Normandy, albeit being the rare exception rather than anything considered common or standard there.
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