The reader digest version I recall him telling was the USN claimed it was their property and SC said it was theirs. Thurmond being on the Sen Armed Services Committee held up funding for Navy ships to help them see the errors of their ways.
The USN never made any claim of ownership of the Hunley. They certainly COULD have based on the precedent that no sovereign power ever relinquishes ownership of any military vessel flagged under that authority. However, the USN never applied any such claim against the Hunley. There was likely some degree of uncertainty about the legitimacy of any sovereignty claim since the the sub was at the best only ever flagged by the CSA. Had the USN ever tried to exert a claim of ownership, that case would almost certainly have gone to court.
(Thereâs some doubt about the legitimacy of any such claim by the USN. Some historians claim that that H.L. Hunley retained private ownership, and the sub was only ever operating under a letter of marque. Thus the Hunley was never actually a naval vessel owned by either the CSA and, by claim of victory, the USN.)
There was actually a federal ruling that stopped short of specifying that the wreck of the Hunley was the property of anyone. It was a case brought by the Sea Research Society once they made public that they had discovered its location. The judge ruled that the wreck laid outside of the jurisdiction of the US Marshallâs Service, but then stopped short of actually awarding salvage rights or ownership to any entity. Since the USN never laid claim to ownership, the matter was left open to interpretation with the Sea Research Society implying that it had salvage rights because it discovered the location of the wreck.
Sen. Glen McConnell and the Hunley Commission negotiated with and facilitated the Sea Research Society to relinquish all claims on the wreck in favor of the state of SC. Once that was done, the SC Institute for Archeology and Anthropology was given custody of the wreck by the state, and it organized the salvage and raising of the Hunley.
The US Navy did contribute a good deal of technical assistance to the salvage (along with the US Parks Service and the SCIAA). Much of the actual work was undertaken by a commercial salvage company.
Huzzah. My brass has turned up to replace the torpedo spar. Not that the kit version isnât okay, Iâm just not completely convinced it wouldnât bend under a bit of rigging tension.
Iâm super tempted to create a larger scale (1/16?) version with an interior.
and by âtemptedâ, I mean I MAY have already startedâŚ
also this little guy turned up with the brassâŚ
âŚitâs soooooo cute.
What a juicy legal question. I can see the argument for the Hunley being a privateer rather than CSA but in either case the putative owning entities no longer exist. I would think ownership must then revert to whoeverâs territorial waters the wreck resided in; not knowing the USA technicalities it would either be fed, or state of SC, depending on standing legislation. If the wreck lay outside the generally accepted 12 mile limit then Iâd say the salvaging entity had undisputed ownership, but not inside 12 miles which I think was the case here
1:16 scale? DO IT!! If youâre short of any brass I have some DIY PE capability - PM me if interested
I donât know they might have said they wanted to but never filed.
It could have been done to help with this agreement.
Seems Strom was aware early on.
Link
Interesting no the less, along with the kit build.
1/16 project is moving along nicely.
Thereâs certainly no doubt that olâ Strom knew a little about anything and everything going on in SC, but the long narrative in the second link makes it pretty clear that he didnât take any official interest in the matter.
That narrative does lay out all the details, though, of the legal chain of custody and ownership, to include the historical controversy about the Hunleyâs status (or not) as a flagged warship.
@Dioramartin There are long established international legal precedents that the wrecks of military vessels (and their contents!) remain the property of the sovereign they were flagged under no matter where they sit on the oceanâs bottom. This is usually just a trivial, quirky tidbit until matters of money become involved.
Note how often salvage companies are taken to court (and lose) ownership of things like caches of gold coins and other valuables when the original (or descended) national sovereign wants ownership of those items. Wrecks that are centuries old have been taken over legally by countries who want the value of their contents (often in the name of âcultural heritageâ) while those same wrecks often lie many thousands of miles away from that country.
In specific regard to the US Navy, there are many cases where the US Navy has confiscated relics and items removed from USN wrecks that lie even thousands of miles away from US territorial waters. It is quite common for, say, some militaria collector who has just publicly purchased (eBay is often involved) pieces of ships china or flatware marked with the vesselâs name and number to have those items confiscated because the items were removed by divers from the wreck of that ship. This happens in the militaria collecting world a lot more often than folks might think. Usually the salvage divers and sellers get away because theyâre foreign nationals and legal action is too costly or diplomatically difficult. However, as soon as the items come back into the US, the USN and US Marshalls come knocking on the door.
(As an aside, the USAF also considers and treats the wrecks of its aircraft the same way.)
Fair enough Michael, although could there have been legislation passed in 1865 or soon after that all/any property owned by or used in the name of the CSA (& all the following legal recitations & qualifications that kind of concept would demand) automatically became property of USA (i.e. fed) wherever it was located? Well I guess thatâs not important right now, Iâm happy to explore these legal niceties further by PM but I feel we should take our bows & shuffle off stage-right leaving my esteemed compatriot free to continue the build
YeahâŚletâs get back to the model!
Yes. Model.
a bit.
kinda distracted by my CAD model for the 3D print to be honest. Besides, I need more ammo for my soldering torch. (thatâs soddering for you very strange American typesâŚ) Have to attach a bit of square section brass end to end with some rod, and glue aint gonna cut it.
Anyhoo:
Yeah, I know itâs not ârealâ modelling, but Iâm a progressive sort of chap. Going to do the crank next, it being the most dominant feature and allâŚ
Itâs âsolderingâ here, too! Others can just sod off!
Okay, okay. I guess some sort of physical model is warranted.
Iâm going to test print this bit:
âŚletâs see how that goes⌠Bench and crank will be separate parts.
âŚNow with more physical model! Sanding! filling! Hobby Cheating!
I printed this at a slightly lower resolution than I normally would to try to save about 15 hoursâŚ
There are a few odd artifacts and crumbs to remove, and some minor stepping because I oriented the file a fraction off level. Meh. Going to add some rolled steel texture or similar anyway. The pictures show the model after basic clean-up and a shot of primer.
Despite this being a test print, Iâm probably going to finish it anyway. looking forward to making it look âlived inâ.
The Crank and Bench parts are Printing nowâŚ
Edit: Ding!
I did, of course, completely neglect to print the seat bracket. Boooo.
Now THAT is brilliant, fantastic result despite the imperfections. PS did you happen to get your printer from Aldi, and did it fail after 20 minutes? I have a Railroad mate who had that experience but the Melbourne repairers were excellent, so itâs worked perfectly over hundreds of hours ever since
Aldi? oh hell no. This is a $5000 form 3. Not that a much cheaper 4K mono printer wouldnât get similar results.
Aha OK I know nuuuthingâŚexcept his was a special for about A$700 about 3 years ago. But even I can tell the quality of what you can produce looks like a cut above or more, heâs just making OO scale railway buildings with it
Looking really good.
A section showing the interior and how it works would make an interesting display piece. You know need to make a sweating crewman cranking that thing like his life depended on it!