Intrigue of Cats, litter of Panthers

[Armor_Buff]

Doug, I think you’re perfectly On the Mark.

Majority of the newer stuff is significantly more complex with the primary exceptions being Tamiya & Academy. Ryefield is the only manufacturer in my experience that gets a nearly perfect balance of part count vs detail vs fun build-ability vs research vs cost vs availability.

From what I read and see at model club(s) neither Academy & Tamiya are held in high regard by the AMS infected Aficionados & Experten. New T&A offers a fun, good, excellent experience but slightly less hair splitting details.

I’d rather have a good build experience with simple kit (~500 parts or less) well designed and slap ~1,200 fiddle bits on it than fight with 1,500 to 1,800 part nightmare. That goes against the overall trend of more complexity is better.

To me and this will be heresy to many, Magic Factory’s new Booker is a perfect example of exactly what I don’t want in a model kit. ~1,500 fiddly bits to make the tracks plus 1970’s crappy design of stowage racks riddled with punch marks and assembly slots.

Punchmarks look to be alive and well. If folks want that I don’t begrudge them but I sure as hell will not waste my time on kits designed like that generally speaking. I have that thing on pre-order, when it arrives, it’s getting tossed into a club raffle for disposal.

I paid my money, took my chances, am OK with that and will express my opinion on that style of kit. Not what I want in a model build. If someone else wants it…cool.

Happy to spend $55 making someone else happy when it’s raffled off.

Over the last four years or so, I’ve built ~30 models, finished ~25 of them. Let’s examine complexity vs enjoyment.

Tamiya M1A1 - (simple) reworked old build - Happy

Tamiya Cromwell - (simple) reworked old build - Happy

Tamiya T55A - (simple kit, added details) Very Happy

Tamiya Pz II - (simple kit, mediocre enjoyment boring subject)

Tamiya Panzer III ausf N (simple kit, added lot of details) Very Happy

Tamiya “Porsche” King Tiger (simple kit, added some details) Very Happy

Tamiya new KV-1 simple kit, Very Happy

Tamiya Panther G w/interior (simple kit made complex with aftermarket) Very Happy**

Tamiya Pz IV H (simple kit, added lot of details) Very Happy

Tamiya Pz IV F (simple kit, added detail) Happy

Tamiya 1970 vintage Tiger 1 (very simple, made complex w/+1,200 plus parts, good instructions) very happy

Tamiya M4 Sherman (simple kit) Happy

Tamiya Pz IV J (simple kit, build & rebuild, that I made difficult, added lots of details) Very Happy

Dragon T-34/85 (simple kit, riddled with 120+ sinkmarks in wheels due to poor quality control, made complex with aftermarket and details) Miserable

Dragon Panzer IV F (medium complexity, more so than Tamiya Pz IV F) Miserable

Dragon 15cm artillery (simple, bad instructions) Miserable

Dragon Pz III ausf N (simple, bad instructions & missing parts) Miserable

Dragon Panther D Kursk (simple, wrong, victim of AMS, made complex) Miserable

Dragon 251/23 (simple, bad instructions) Miserable

Dragon/Imperial/Gunzy Pz IV F2 (very simple, made complex w/details, great instructions) Delighted thumbs **

Dragon 234/2 Puma (simple, good instructions) Happy thumbs

Academy Pz III ausf J N/A (simple, good instructions) Happy thumbs **

Italeri Pz IV G (stupid simple, good instructions, perfect mold quality 1970’s first pressing, added +1,200 details & PE etc) best Italeri build to date, very happy

Italeri Panther A/D (simple, pure garbage, bad mold quality, good enough instructions +1,200 details & PE etc) very happy

Meng Leopard 1A3 (new, complex, 1970’s suspension, high price) not happy

ICM T-34/76 1943 (simple, new, 1980’s quality) Happy

RFM Stug III G (complex) Happy

RFM T-34/85 (complex) Happy

RFM KV-1 1942 (simple, perfect, best kit ever) Very Happy

My take aways…

$hitty instructions ruin even simple kits no matter what so Dragon usually sucks. Going forward I’m not buying anymore Dragon kits.

For a good new school model time grab a RFM, new Academy or new Tamiya kit.

Otherwise grab an old school simple kit.

For me old kit plus adding details is more fun that is better than new school complexity like Mini-Art offers.

Pointless Complexity adds misery for near zero gain.

YMMV

Happy Model Building

…oh and mostly Dragon just sucks in my opinion and truthfully they always sucked…and I’ve bought enough Dragon kits (100+) over the years that I’ve paid my dues to say Dragon sucks.

[Barney]

Glad to hear your kitty is on the mend with simple antibiotics.

[SSGToms]

Excellent kit review Wade, well said. My best wishes to Kali Cat and I’m so happy she’s recovering.

[Damraska]

I have never built a Rye Field model. The Panther is one of my favorite World War II tanks and over represented in my little collection. It might be fun to pick up a Rye Field Panther and see how it compares to Dragon and Meng.

[Armor_Buff]

Steve & Matt thank you! Kali appreciates the well wishes as do I. She feels much better today and tried to snatch the patty out of my hamburger at lunch.

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The tracks were test fitted to my satisfaction before painting early in the build but quickly ran into problems.

1. Discovered a fit issue due too few paint & marker burrs on one sprocket.

2. All of the airbrushing and multiple washes caused the articulation of the track links to be very stiff.

Easy to fix, removed burrs and articulated tracks until they moved freely.

Italeri sprockets, Ryefield idlers, Model-Kasten Wheels & Sector35 tracks.

Obviously, still needs some tweaks etc but at least m at last the tracks are on!

[BringupthePIAT]

If I may chime in here Doug and Wade -

The RFM kits are in my experience, high parts count and a little more involved than Meng on the build side but they are superb. Great instructions, lots of lovely add ons and if you pay attention, they build up to something really special. I’ve never built an RFM kit I didnt enjoy, apart from the M1150 but that’s because I bit off more than I could chew too early and wasn’t skilled or experienced enough to tackle the mine plough.

I nonetheless still think Meng’s Panther is the best I’ve built in the scale. I’ve done a Tamiya, three Mengs, an RFM and I have a newer Dragon, two Takoms and the Hobbyboss upstairs.

I think the Meng kit (they have a few, Ive built the A, the G and the Jagd) is Meng on their absolute A Game. As a modelling experience Meng aren’t as good as RFM I don’t think, but now and again you get a kit from them that just knocks it out of the park and showcases what one OEM is great at. Call it Alchemy, whatever - the Meng Panthers are just a hugely enjoyable modelling experience. Each time I’ve built one I’ve come out with what was at the time my best work and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Best compliment I can give the RFM Panthers is that they are very much up there in that bracket - absolutely amazing kits and would easily be the best Panthers in the scale if the Meng’s weren’t so good.

I sometimes find RFM a little tedious on the parts count (I much prefer the painting and weathering phase) in certain kits - their Leo 2 for one example, but their Panther I didn’t think was over-complex at all. You know what you are getting: great instructions, superb molding, no ejection pin marks anywhere you need to sort them, no flash, sensible build structures, nice sub-assemblies when required and enough PE not to need an upgrade set. The tracks were sensible and I didnt feel compelled to shell out for resin aftermarket ones at any point.

Can wholeheartedly recommend.

[BringupthePIAT]

I was thinking about this the other way, Wade - the last few Tamiyas I’ve built have been newer kits and are some way removed from the “shake and bake” we are used to from them from back in the day.

They are simple in comparison to the RFM and Meng offerings, but not as simple as they used to be back in the day, if that makes sense.

I do wonder if we will see a new Panther from the Big T soon - their later G dates from 1994 if you can believe it (and is a nice kit) and their more recent D is from 2015, but with the advancements they’ve made in their technology and so on, you look at how much better their newer kits are from their mid-90/early 00s previous versions (EG: Jagdpanzer Lang L/70, Leopard 2, KV-2, KV-1, Panzer IV various, M551 Sheridan etc) we see that they are happy to do re-releases that they know will sell and can add genuine value to.

I’ll stick my neck out and say a current tech all new mold Tamiya A or G Panther - metal barrel, link and length tracks, really precise molding, really nice crew figs, etc - would be a more complex kit than the ones they have on offer now but will be a really enjoyable modelling experience and produce a really accurate Panther in whatever guise they do, that will stand up nicely to the Mengs and RFMs even with half the parts count.

Will be interesting to see if they do an all new Panther or Jagd at any point. I suspect not for a while given the time they put into their early D but you never know.

[BringupthePIAT]

This is looking absolutely sensational mate.

[Damraska]

I am finishing a Meng Jagdpanther G2 and did not like it. Hull panels did not align correctly on the internal frame, assembled tracks have a helical bias (they have a subtle twist like a strand of DNA), track hangers are fragile and broke, road wheel swing arms are hard to align, instructions are sometimes unclear. It is missing some detail parts found in Dragon models. I am very concerned the tracks will not fit on the model during final assembly because they dried all goofy. Dragon Magic Tracks never did that.

[BringupthePIAT]

It never fails to amaze me how different modellers have differing experiences on the same kits

I did the Meng Jagd G last year and it was flawless (to me). You are a more experienced and advanced builder than I am so I guess you have different tolerances. Takes all sorts!

Let me know how you get on with the RFM.

[Damraska]

I am definitely not a more experienced modeler but it’s not like I slapped the Meng Jagdpanther G2 together and then had an, “Oh no!”, moment. With the exception of the tracks, I anticipated every problem and tried to avoid mistakes. To the credit of the model designer, the final product looked quite good–until I painted it.

Unlike you and Wade, I like Dragon models in general and Dragon Panthers in particular. The instructions, not so much.

Having now built three Takom models, they are o k a y. The new Takom super cheap Panther piques my curiosity.

Never built a Tamiya Panther.

May give Hobby Boss or Trumpeter a try.

…

Also, I am happy the kitty was successfully repaired and hope she heals up quickly and returns to anti-partimouse patrol.

Also, also, yes, Wade has built another model that looks excellent. I am curious how he will handle the markings on that zimmerit.

[Armor_Buff]

Doug, thank you for wishing Kali well.

Joey-Cat the 18 pound Big Galoot lives for the MSBP (mouse, squirrel & bird patrol). After a particular harrowing two hour patrol…

…he purr-furs to relax on an electric blanket when possible but has been know to im-purr-vise.

Chris makes many excellent points. I’ll support his views by adding my own twist and arbitrary time stamps.

Tamiya has a slow progression towards more complex. My perception is the beginning to 1989 was phase 1 (very simple, shake & bake). The Late Tiger 1 (#35146) in 1989 marked the start of phase 2 (simple, mostly shake & bake).

Welcome to Phase 3!

In 2024, with #35387 Leopard 2A7V we have the start of phase 3 (moderate complexity) the innovation of working individual link tracks for idler & sprocket combined with length for the top and bottom is a new twist. Plus some PE etc. It’s a different bird than the Tamiya Leo 2A5 or A6 of 20 years ago.

I’d say that parts of the market are past ready for that change. The Tamiya Leopard 2A7V #35387 is exactly what I want from a manufacturer. Ryefield had honestly kicked Tamiya out of my favorite manufacturer slot sometime ago.

To be blunt, RFM kits gets purchased 6x more often than Tamiya kits from looking at my stash over the last two years. RFM has ME! (que Kerr Avon, Blake’s Seven voice) 200+ panzer buff buying Sherman kits. I barely know a Jumbo from Firefly or a Dumbo from an Isherman.

Avon, my favorite character in Blake’s Seven for context.

As for the newer Panther/JagdPanther kits, I obviously need to build one in the near future so I’ll deferr to those that have on specifics of how they actually build.

Meng strikes me as Dragon inspiration without the near mandatory Dragon Suck.

Of all the new (2015 forward) bells and whistles Panther kits, the Meng Panther D & A are the kits that I want to build the most. Meng’s Early Panther A wins by hair due to the box art…

…swap on a steel drump cupola, add command antennas make the most awesome looking 267 befehl Panther A

Like this one at the MAN factory…

Ok maybe not the most awesome ^ but darn close…

[Armor_Buff]

Dreaded the Day of the Sideskirts but it’s arrived.

First idea, use the leftover parts from the Dragon Panther D build since I have 11 surplus skirts. However, the Dragon skirt hangers do not match the Eduard PE skirts. The hangers can be modified to work, as I did one but the plastic hanger is too thick and looks stupid with the PE.

Second idea, use another Eduard PE Panther D/A skirt set w/PE hangers. I failed to find another one in the stash. I’m a little too impatient at this point to search and order one.

Third idea, bite the bullet and use those On The Mark PE parts for D/A skirt hangers.

Pitty I can’t solder well enough to make the hanger. Each little C has to be soldered into place consistently. I doubt CA for just bonding on the edge.

This stuff is supposed to become skirt brackets like this plus cotter pins and a rear guide?

Seems very unlikely with my skill set.

Worse of the worst, time to hit the reference books… …I’m not sure if in total it was 4 hours or 8 hours but it was way too much time in any case. It was approaching a Black Hole in space, one might not escape.

For discussion only etc

Maybe I don’t need all of the clutter on the model.

What have here?!

Screw the side skirts and hangers. I’ll use the OTM hanger brackets only. Open and empty will be a nice detail.

So why do you hate references so much Wade? Because I get “lost” chasing details I find interesting. Example this early Panther D is well-known and was in France etc as a training tank. I have other pictures of it and one day when my skills are maybe adequate maybe I’ll try building it.

Hmmm is there something here to learn…

My that looks like a chassis number or manufacturer serial number (partial) on the headlight! I need to check…other references…

…and eight hours disappeared that’s about 20% to 25% of the time required to build and detail this model excluding paint…

…to chase one detail and find a suitable solution. That’s why I personally hate looking at reference books

[RandyT]

Wade nice job!
When I start building my Panther kits next year can I send you the tracks to paint. VBG.

[Armor_Buff]

Randy, thank you.

Sounds great that you’re going to have a Panther project going in the new year! I’ll be happy to help with tracks. Metal, plastic, Tamiya vinyl etc we should be good.

I’m very leery of Dragon’s soft DS tracks, they don’t seem to be chemically stable in some cases. Floquil Railroad Antique Bronze might damage or accelerate the break down of Dragon’s soft DS tracks, otherwise we should be good. Previously, some of Dragon half-a$$ed vinyl tires cracked over the years. I have no idea how DS reacts.

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The side skirt bracket cotter pin picture.

The brackets for the skirt hangers.

That detail probably wasn’t worth the hours it cost…nature of the game sometimes.

[Damraska]

The Floquil wash color you use is very good.

[Armor_Buff]

Thank you, Doug. Despite the hassle of filtering the Floquil Rust and Dirt, to me they are still worth it. With the Guny Sail wash, I think the trio work well together.

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Gloss coat day! Building a base for decaling Zimmerit is always fun!

Two thin coats of Floquil Crystal Cote w/MCLT applied with Paasche VL and tomorrow I’ll decide two more are needed.

Slight color shift after gloss but not excessive.

Not jazzed about using Floquil Crystal Cote again, I’ve tried to wean away and use more modern products due to dwindling supply. However, decaling this Cavalier Zimmerit will be more challenging for me than Pz IV J with paint thin Zimmerit. The Cavalier is great but it rougher in texture.

The Floquil Crystal Cote, Micro-Set, Micro-Sol approach with good quality decal film should yeild decals on Zimmerit results similar to the ones from ~30 years ago below unless I screw this up.

Now the challenge is what markings. I haven’t really thought about that. Gross Deutschland is a logical choice but I’ve already done a GD Panther D this year. I don’t like Gross Deutschland these days after learning how they started committing warcrimes almost immediately in WW2.

The other canidate is 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking as I believethey also used Panther D’s. Haven’t done a Wiking vehicle since ~1993 IIRC.

Probably have to hit the references again and see if a suitable alternative comes up.

Edit - No shake, just bake after out gassing for two hours, into the dehydrator, 10 hours, 104 degrees.

Edit - after checking books and decal sheets etc, I’ve decided to do the Italeri Panther D as my interpretation of 9th SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen’s Panther D “219”. There’s a fair amout of artistic license in that choice but 219 was kicking Zimmerit with 16 bolt wheels except for one per sources.

[BootsDMS]

Wade, if you’re going to worry about war crimes then practically any SS Division will be found to be flawed!

I love your work and the attention to detail, but please, don’t worry about history; history is history(!)

[Armor_Buff]

Brian, I generally couldn’t careless about the political correctness of model building. I have three rules

1. The only unit’s vehicles I won’t model are the 36th SS aka The Dirlewanger Brigade.

2. I don’t model graphic violence.

3. I don’t model atrocities.

Everything else is pretty much fair game. I’m pretty much model and let model.

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It’s more of a personal total disappointment in specifically Gross Deutschland after thinking they were professionals as a teenager then learning the truth about them as an adult. Growing up in the 1970’s even into the 1980’s Gross Deutschland gave impression of professional soldiers of the highest caliber thanks to the wargames and wargamers I knew. Part of that was due to the necessity of anti-communist views during the Cold War etc.

Basically…

Which of course obliterated that Clean Wehrmacht nonsense I’d grown up hearing and reading for 25+ years.

Anyway there’s just something about Gross Deutschland more than other Wehrmacht division that just makes me want to vomit probably because of a wargaming friend who happened to be black, that revered GD so highly as professionals (he didn’t know the truth) and they’d happily have murdered him on sight.

Anyway, this Panther D will be marked as a 9th SS Panzer Division tank.

While certainly not angels, the 9th & 10th SS had realitively clean records. A few members were charged after the war but overall the two divisions had a good reputations.

Cheers

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Battle of the Decals…began today…

[BootsDMS]

Pleased to hear it though not from any particular stance I must emphasise. The Clean Wehrmacht stuff, of course, was a post war drive by the very perpetrators who’d participated; how they got away with it all I don’t quite know, though as you indicate, the imperatives of the Cold War and the need for the reformation of a German Army had no small bearing.

Coincidentally, I model a lot of Soviet stuff, or try to (my build record is somewhat skewed) but I hardly ever give a thought to the poor wretches in the Gulags. Perhaps I should (!)

Anyway sorry for the distraction - keep up the good work.

PS: My uncle was in 9th SS.