KF51 Panther

Hello,
I was looking through Breaking Defense and they have a nice article on an AFV from Rhienmettal that is new to me. I do not know how to post links, however, I am confident that some of our group can pursue this lead so that others can have a look, too. There are several interesting features listed, such as a 130mm gun and an auto-loading system.

There is also a company video that gives a good view of the vehicle.

Respectfully,
Allen

Yes, interesting news indeed:

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Hello Carlos,

Yes, that is it. Thank you for finding and posting this video.

Respectfully,

Allen

Super Panzer Panther KF51 - Alle Informationen - Rheinmetall Panther KF51 - YouTube

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Already in Ukraine digital camo? :grin: Hot piece of Sh…

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Modified Leo2 chassis with new turret?

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Completely new turret and hull but the running gear and engine are taken from the Leopard 2.

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“The Panther’s chassis uses components of the Leopard 2 hull, but the turret is entirely new.”

Larger main gun too.

“The main armament is the Rheinmetall 130mm cannon, designed for the MGCS project’s Future Gun System (FGS). The FGS is automatically loaded from two revolver-type magazines which each hold 10 rounds of insensitive munition-compliant ammunition.”

Above from this report:

It’s a very clean design with hardly any protrusions on the hull and turret. I like how sleek and racy it looks, but I do question it’s multifunctional usage even with a 130mm gun because what else does the large turret contain? The US Army tacks on all these doodads to protect its crew.

It’s said to have Active Layer, but that is vague, and I wonder what that means as I don’t see any Active Protection System launchers on the turret so I wonder if they’re flush.

20 rounds for a MBT seems a bit low in ammunition count even though the rounds are larger and 130mm. The turret seems to have blow-out panels for the entire revolver system. The 12.7mm COAX is different but understandable to perhaps compensate for the low main gun rounds. The 7.62mm RWS turret gun is also unorthodox although some MBTs use 7.62mm. Against drones, I wonder if it will have the punch to reach out and kill.

Lacking standup antennas, I wonder if the US Army will follow suit with such a clean turret as M1A2SEPs have antennas for GPS, Anti-IED, Anti-Sniper, SATCOM, Blue Force Tracker, and so on.

I was wondering similar things in regards to various bits of kit on the turret. The Challenger 3 is to have an APS but there was little info about whether it was to be a flush fitting or an addition. Flush would be the ideal solution and the Panther seems to have the extra space needed on the turret.

Now we just need a kit and possibly a decent stencil for that snazzy new camo!

@Karl187 You’re correct. That is how the M1A2SEP Versions grew from 69 tons to over 80 tons with all the add-on kits and trimmings! All those add-on additions to address various threats (TUSK, APS, IED, mineplow) and to counterbalance the Trophy APS made it super-heavy and took off a few MPHs along with it.

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Wow is the M1A2SEP really 80 tons ? Holy cow!

You’d think the Germans would avoid ‘Panther’ for a tank name, but then again they named a prototype Leopard the A7V, calling back to the early tank of that nomenclature in WWI.

No.

M1: 60 short tons (54 t)
M1A1: 63 short tons (57 t)
M1A2: 67.6 short tons (61.3 t)
M1A2 SEP v2: 71.2 short tons (64.6 t)
M1A2 SEP v3: 73.6 short tons (66.8 t)

Oh ok I was gonna say that’s a substantial increase over the earlier versions

That’s for the Plain Vanilla M1s. But for the M1A2 SEPs with TUSK II, mineplow, Trophy APS, Anti-IED antennas, GPS, Blue Force Tracker, APU, extra frontal turret armor, and trimmings, their weights are over 80 tons for the M1A2SEPs outfitted with practically EVERY add-on M1A2 kit ever made, and I’m talking about twin .50cals M2s over the 120mm gun barrel, etc. I fixed my original reply to clarify this.

There was a weight chart posted on Reddit or Quora a few years back that showed these weights with add-on kits to the M1A2SEP. Since the source may have been leaked, I think it was removed.

So I posted M1A2SEPv3’s over 80 tons to compare the Leopard KF51’s 59-ton capabilities to that of a M1A2SEPv3 with the “same capabilities” of active layer, passive layer, and reactive layer armor, Anti-IED, Anti-Sniper, Anti-mine, and Trophy APS. Essentially, it’s the Burlington/Chobham and DU armor that makes the M1A2s (and Challenger 2s) so heavy. The Germans may have done away with Burlington/Chobham armor and settled for a cheaper and lighter sandwich armor.

One thing is for sure, with M1 add-on kit, such as TUSK I and II, the weights go into the 70-tons.

Here is an old post showing the TUSK kits. https://forums.kitmaker.net/t/m1a2-sep-v2-trophy-question/13522. Note that the twin .50cal M2HBs are NOT installed over the 120mm gun barrel so it’s NOT the full kit and the M1A2SEPv3 is NOT maxed out weight, meaning it can weigh more.

Getting back to the topic…can the KF51 Panther achieve what the M1A2SEPv3 at 80-tons can with all the add-on kits and trimmings? I doubt it because the extra around 20 tons M1A2SEP kits adds capabilities that I don’t see readily apparent in the sleek flush turret and hull of the KF51.

Ok, I’m not calling BS on this, I’d love to see twin 50s over the barrel… Anyone?

The US Navy uses twin .50s. :grinning: OK, maybe not twin .50cals over the barrel…my bad.

The ammo box might get in the way of mounting twin .50cals.

M1A1 with TUSK.

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