M1 Abrams black stencil data?

[AUSTanker]

Greetings from an old US Army CAV tanker! I worked on the old original M1 with the 105mm main gun, and the 120mm M1A1.

I found a 1/35 decal from China on E Bay with some really impressive decals for OIF M1A1 Abrams, including “Courtesy of the Red White And Blue.” It includes a truly impressive selection of small black stencil data for all over the hull- but no specific directions on where they go.

Other than the Bridge class disc on the front slope, or maybe a “Tow Here,” I don’t recall lots of stencil data, but ours had been repainted. I’m totally game to putting the by the book correct stencil data on Reagan Era etc. tanks- I just can’t seem to find the book!

Would love to hear of anyone has an actual PDF of an official diagram showing where all those little stencils go! Best, Christian

[Frenchy]

@AUSTanker

Courtesy of the Red White And Blue

Is it the Echelon Fine Details set (T35016) ?

If so instructions should be included…

Here are they if needed

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/2/7/2/225272-55-instructions.pdf

H.P.

[Dan]

Welcome from a old CDAT! I only remember only little black stars, front and rear and a bridge classification number on the front Slope.

[HeavyArty]

There are not many stencils on an Abrams, especially if it has been repainted.

There are usually “LIFT HERE” stencils on the rear next to the lift rings and maybe a star.

On the front is usually just the bridge class and a star, both on top of the front glacis.

[18bravo]

I’ve got that on my walk around, but by the time I get home, someone will have probably supplied the photos online already. But there are the usual. “ lift here.” and tool locations and “this side off” type of stenciling, as well as the vehicle ID number across the back above the large exhaust outlet

[AUSTanker]

Greetings from Philly, Frenchy H.P. and Dan!

I’ll try to describe this surprising Chinese decal sheet better. Normally I’d never touch unbranded or generic stuff, but I saw this on E Bay, ordered it out of curiousity from China, and was stunned to see the quality of it!

It’s got barrel names “Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue,” “Camel Toe,” “Catalyst,” “Can Tank R Us,” “Chincon,” and “Crown Royal,” and lots of duplicate unit markings, chevrons, Alpha and Numeric characters for bumper codes, etc.

What interests me is, there’s a ton of nice black stencils such as “LOGMARS Shipping Labels,” “EAPU Warning Labels,” “CIP Warning Labels” and “CIP Stencils” (we know here those go- it’s got the usual “THIS SIDE OFF.”), “Barrel Exercised Dates,” and other, small, unidentified but interesting markings, such as yellow “Sand Blocks.”

An impressive mix- but they don’t give any drawings or written instructions on where they go!

Dan I’m with ya- as a CAV MOS 19 Kilo, I worked with everything from original M1s with the 105mm gun in NATO camo to M1A1s in desert camo, and only recall the same stuff- the bridge class disc, a small black star. Especially with repainted tanks!

My interest is in maybe doing some historic tanks right out of the factory; guessing that when they rolled out ones like “Thunderbolt” and, later, the first M1A1, they probably had a full suite of sexy black stencil data- we just need to know where!

You’d think there’d be an official diagram in the FMs, right?

Best, Christian

[AUSTanker]

BTW, gentlemen- a question for my fellow “Old Guys” (I was born in 1969!).

Been reading about Desert Shield 1990 (not Storm, but Shield), and it occurs to me, you just don’t see finished models online of Desert Shield (not Storm) Abrams tanks training up in Saudi. I was just reading some snarky comments about how the classic, original Tamiya 1983 1/35 M1 Abrams with the 105mm gun is supposedly such an awful kit- and that has me wanting to grab one and add the old Verlinden resin interior for it, plus backdate what I can from the Eduard M1A1 PE, to do a Desert Shield 1990 M1.

Yeah I know, the turret shape and bustle rack stowage boxes are off, but overall Tamiya’s classic is still a decent kit.

My question is, I’m sure you all recall the Verlinden dry decal sheet called “M1 Abrams Tank Markings, Desert Shield.” It’s got some turret art with a Homer Simpson face, etc., but what interests me is the 3 sizes supplied of a black shield logo with “Desert Shield '90” on it.

Verlinden didn’t include decal instruction sheets back in the early 1990s, but were they implying that this artwork was worn on an Abrams during Desert Shield? Would love to build it, but I always like to find photographic evidence first! I pored through a bunch of books and did find one photo of a wooden sign outside a unit’s HQ tent with this logo and something like “688 MAINT” under it.

Dunno if Verlinden just threw these in as extras on the sheet, to make cardboard unit signs for dioramas?

Feel free to tell me if I’m overthinking it, but was Verlinden- on a sheet called “Desert Shield M1 Abrams Artwork-” saying this logo was actually worn on an M1 during Desert Shield 1990?

[Frenchy]

@AUSTanker

I’m sure you all recall the Verlinden dry decal sheet called “M1 Abrams Tank Markings, Desert Shield.

H.P.

[HeavyArty]

There have been a bunch of threads here about Desert Shield and Desert Storm Abrams. There were a few M1s still around (probably M1 IPs), but most were swapped out for M1A1s during Desert Shield, before Storm kicked off. No idea if Verlinden was correct that it was an M1 with the markings you mention.

Here are some of the prior post that talks about or around the subject that may be helpful.
ODS Abrams threads

The old Tamiya M1 is pretty weak. It can be brought up to a more correct state with some work.

A better option may be the Panda (now Zimi) M1. It has a few issues, but far less than the Tamiya kit.

The biggest is the tracks. The outer part has the correct chevron pattern of T156 tracks, however, Panda molded the inner side of the tracks as T158 tracks. It can’t be both and should be the T156 tracks. Trumpeter made/makes a set of indi-link T156 tracks to replace them with.

Next, the barrel is too short by about 2mm forward of the bore evacuator. There is no AM replacement barrel for it that I know of, but you can take a Def Model late M68 barrel (35015) for an M60A3 and cut it off behind the bore evac and swap those sections. You will also have to add the muzzle reference sensor on the new barrel.

Also, the road wheels are a little off in that they are M1A1 wheels that have thinner rubber parts. This is a minor issue though as most can’t tell the difference between them. I don’t plan on replacing them on mine.

The mantlet bracket for the light/ranging gun is shown wrong in the instructions too. Use the straight bracket, Part B56, instead of the optional angled bracket, Part B1.

Lastly, the left rear fuel filler cap is molded 90 degrees off from where it should be. This can be shaved off and repositioned (if done carefully) or replaced by an AM one.

Other than that, it is pretty nice and builds up nicely.

As I stated above, there were mostly M1IP tanks, as opposed to straight M1s by ODS. Panda also does a pretty nice M1 IP. It has all the same issues as above, but also has an incorrect, short M1 mantlet on it too.

More info here.

[AUSTanker]

Gino, my Red Leg Paisan!

Yup, being an actual old CAV Abrams MOS 19 Kilo,it blew my mind when my wife gave me the Panda 1/35 M1 IP for Christmas- I took a look and thought, “Am I misremembering the barrel/ tracks/ fuel cap, etc.?” It just adds a whole other dimension to model your actual vehicle…I’ve been working on a model of “My” Humvee from Bosnia for years- “Naah, that’s still not right!”

It’s frustrating that the aftermarket boys claim, “To make it profitable, we only make stuff for recent kits-” yet although we have the recent Panda series of early M1s, and the Rye Field “Desert Storm 1991 M1A1,” the most “recent” 1/35 decal for Desert Shield is…Verlinden’s dry transfer- from the early 1990s?

And the very few sheets out there for Desert Storm Abrams tanks are not much newer.

And this is after the 35th Anniv. of Desert Storm last year. which was a perfect opportunity to put out new stuff.

You all probably know Eli Raphael’s amazing 1/48 decals for airplanes.. the early B-17, for example- it cost maybe $25 way back when, but it’s the last word, comprehensive and beautiful quality…not just the usual tired old, recycled 8th AF ETO topics, but subjects from N Africa, the Pacific- an amazing sheet.

You’d think there’d be a ready made big market for nice new armor decals with full color, clear instructions and photos, topics like “Desert Shield 1990 M1 Abrams 105mm,” “Desert Storm Army Humvees,” etc.

We have these decent (compared to the prior ones) recent Abrams kits…but where are the aftermarket decals to go with them, right? I’m thinking, based on my experience, that a man who would blow $100-plus for a Rye Field kit plus aftermarket PE, resin, metal barrels, working track links, etc. would probably happily spend $25 more for a really good decal sheet.

[HeavyArty]

Caio Cav Trooper. It does make it much harder to model your own vehicle or ones you have direct knowledge of from serving on/around them. I am the same, but do enjoy the challenge.

I too agree there are not enough options for more modern vehicles. Hopefully somone will pick up the gauntlet and run with it though…hopefully.

[AUSTanker]

Buon giorno, Gino!

My dream is, kits and decals of Reagan Era Army armor and aviation…didn’t you do a great conversion of a Grenada 1983 UH-60? I drooled over it! So wacky that we have to go through all that trouble of backdating and bashing 3 expensive kits to get an Urgent Fury Black Hawk.

I can count on one hand the number of kits/ aftermarket decals that cover the Reagan Era Cold War…which I why I like to research it, and dig through the spares box to see what I can come up with.

Funny story, believe it or not- makes you wonder how Panda could make so many mistakes-

I was at the Armor and CAV Collection at Ft. Knox a few years ago, researching my book on the Abrams, and my wife points out a nice elderly man, who happened to be Asian, crawling all over an ODS-era Bradley, taking pics. He had a notebook, even a ruler and tape measure!

I turned to my host, who was an Army vet too, and he said, “Oh, he’s one of our volunteers, helps out all over. He can take pics; they’re on public display. He sends the info to the Chinese model makers.”

I rolled my eyes at that and said, “So THAT’S how Trumpeter does it!”

We then had a good laugh along the lines of, “Hey, if anybody is concerned about Chinese espionage to get info on the Bradley, they’ve probably had the blueprints of it since 1983!”

[Dan]

Not Trumpeter, but Takom.

[HeavyArty]

ODS-era Bradley, taking pics. … So THAT’S how Trumpeter does it!

If it was a Bradley, it was probably Meng or Magic Factory.

And yes, I did the UH-60A Grenada backdate a couple years ago. It was a fun and rewarding build. I don’t mind doing extensive backdates/rebuilds.

1/35 UH-60A Grenada (OP Urgent Fury) Build

I have started on another project I have wanted to do for a while. I am building an early UH-60A Black Hawk from Operation Urgent Fury, the US invasion of Grenada in Oct 1983. This was the first combat action the Black Hawk helicopter had seen, its baptism by fire. These early UH-60As had no wire strike kits, open exhaust, no ESSS wing attachments, no chaff buckets, M60D doorguns, etc. Here is one in Grenada. [sik_s-70] So far, I have started a test to see if the open exhausts from one of …

There are a lot of Cold War subjects that would be nice to have though. Cold War figures are especially missing.

[18bravo]

@AUSTanker

“So THAT’S how Trumpeter does it!”

That’s how they all do it - actual measurements and photos. The days of trying to interpret old DA photos have long disappeared. But how then do they get all of the modern vehicles? They attend weapons exhibits (like SOF Week, which I attend) among many others worldwide. The generel consensus is (which I heard again last week) is: Just don’t take any photos of the screens or the comms, Even the screens are usually okay if they’re not on. That was the rule with the SHORAD version of the Stryker.
By the way, I posted a photos of an Asian gentleman a few years ago - crawling out from underneath a vehicle at a show - with a camera.
Visiting actuial production and refit facilities helps as well:

[18bravo]

Speaking of decals for specific vehicles - most people who do read my posts know exactly where Meng got their info from:

Their builds tend to be more accurate as well.

@AUSTanker

You’d think there’d be a ready made big market for nice new armor decals with full color, clear instructions and photos, topics like “Desert Shield 1990 M1 Abrams 105mm,” “Desert Storm Army Humvees,” etc.

Model and decal companies love to give us more options. The problem is - wartime photos seldom show us all the views we need.

[AUSTanker]

Too cool, Gino! That natural metal air filter on the top right of the photo brings back memories…of being covered with powdery sand and dust after “servicing” them in the M1A1!

Reminds me of a couple funny stories from a pal who was a retired Army LTC during the Cold War, and served as a military attache in divided Germany.

We were looking for any info on a new Soviet type tank (prolly the T-72 or T-80), so, my pal told me, if he could get away from his Red Army “escorts,” he liked to talk to any Polish Warsaw Pact soldiers, since they loved Americans, hated the Soviet occupiers, were Catholic like my friend, and had relatives in the US.

One time some Polish tankers asked if he had a camera- and invited him to climb into their T-72 or T-80 and look around, before the Soviets got there…he does so, gets some good pics, then hears the Soviet officers and NCOs outside of the tank, yelling at the Poles, “Have you seen an Americanski officer snooping around here?”

My pal climbs out of the tank turret- wearing full Army Class As, and with a camera and a crap-eating grin for the Red Army! As he said, “If looks could kill-”

Another time, he was congratulated for finding very helpful line drawings and statistics on a new Soviet tank (maybe the T-72 or T-80)? He tried a new angle that surprisingly the other US military attaches had overlooked- he changed from his Army uniform to civvies, crossed over Checkpoint Charlie into East Berlin- and found a toy store that sold a new model kit of the Red Army’s newest tank, which he scarfed up and brought back over the Berlin Wall as soon as he could!

[18bravo]

@AUSTanker

He tried a new angle that surprisingly the other US military attaches had overlooked- he changed from his Army uniform to civvies, crossed over Checkpoint Charlie into East Berlin- and found a toy store that sold a new model kit of the Red Army’s newest tank, which he scarfed up and brought back over the Berlin Wall as soon as he could!

Which kit was it? I used to shop at the Centrum almost every weekend but managed to miss it.
Who was your pal? As an SF guy in Berlin, I knew most of them, as well as the Det A guys. Lived there for four years.
We might be from different eras. When I was there it was strictly forbidden by the four power agreement and the US Army to travel into East Berlin in Civvies.

[Bkkinman]

It does not seem that there were a lot of stencils on those early vehicles. Bumper and unit numbers- there are a few pictures with vehicles names on the turret sponson boxes. Trying to upload a photo, but issues.