M4A1 Unit ID?

I have photo sent to me from the Netherlands of an M4A1 cast hull. I would appreciate a unit identification for the displayed symbol.

Thanks,

DJ

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The Nottinghamshire Yeomanry (Sherwood Rangers) was part of the 8th Armoured Brigade. Its brigade identification badge was a red fox mask on a yellow background.The Nottinghamshire Yeomanry unit identification number was 996 painted white on a red background above a white bar

H.P.

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Thats a Canadian built M4A1 Grizzly

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Frenchy, I’m sure you didn’t mean to, but in your 3rd sentence you list “Northamptonshire” when of course, it should be “Nottinghamshire” as you first identify.

The “52” shown on this survivor is fallacious I believe; the “996” was the identifier of this particular unit. Perhaps the combined unit badge and number have confused the restorer?

If however, this unit did indeed use a “52” for whatever reason, then I stand to be corrected(!)

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I thought I had successfully managed to correct this before anyone noticed…I was wrong :wink:

H.P.

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Notts Yeomanry were second senior regiment in 8AB, so their tanks wore a white 52 on red as AoS. The markings are good, but of course I doubt they ever got hold of Canadian-built Grizzly tanks - they’d have had US Shermans and Stuarts.

EDIT: Google was wrong, as Brian points out below!

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Sorry Frenchy, eyes like a rat in a less than salubrious WC as the saying (almost) goes.

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They weren’t; they were the third. The other serial numbers for the Brigade were:

993 - Brigade HQ
994 - 4/7 Royal Dragoon Guards
995 - 24th Lancers
996 - Nottinghamshire Yeomanry aka Sherwood Rangers
475 - 12 King’s Royal Rifle Corps
1147 - 147 Essex Yeomanry RA

So the “52” is specious.

If they were in an Armoured Division, granted they would sport a “52” or a “53”, but they weren’t, they were in an Independent Amoured Brigade as Army Troops, that is under the direct control of “Army” in this case 2nd British Army, itself a component of 21st Army Group.

The idea being that Army could direct them to support whatever formation they should/could, as and when; a menu if you like for the Commander of 2nd Army to allocate as he saw fit for whatever battle he was devising. In practice, they were generally in support of the Infantry Divisions, and stayed with them for the duration of the campaign, not always, but it became the usual.

Regarding the markings, I just wonder if the unit adopted the Armoured Div markings somewhere along the line for deception reasons? It would not be unknown, though if German intelligence could de-cypher the British system AOS, then hats off to them(!)


My Ninja GIFs | Tenor

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Sorry - I shouldn’t trust what I see on Google! In that case the 52 is out of place…

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My Brothers—MANY THANKS!

Great group, I appreciate your interest and responses

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Aaargh! Somehow I’ve double-tapped with an earlier draft; grateful if a Ninja could tidy it up please and remove the second waste of space.


Tidied up

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Sorry Tom, just being a pedantic bastard, as usual.

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You can tell by the Canadian “Dry Pin” tracks.

They used several Grizzlys during the filming of “Band of Brothers”.

They even used it to replicate a Sherman IC during the battle of Remagen.

Sporting 11th Armoured Division markings.

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Technically, that’s just a reasonable indicator, because they might have been fitted when the tank was restored :slight_smile: However, a look at another side of this particular tank shows distinct Grizzly details:

That is to say, the tool stowage being on the left sponson and the mounting blocks on the rear of the turret are clear signs that this is indeed a Grizzly.

BTW, the spurious unit markings were already on it before it was fixed up, too:

Notice that the bow/rear markings are the only ones actually carried over, everything else is different.

Interestingly, both the previous and present markings use Arial for the numbers (though not in the census number on the current version), which is totally anachronistic. It certainly points to the last paint job being from late last century at the earliest.

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Hi, never noticed it had ‘applique armour’ over the front transmission cover.

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Grizzlies are widespread in preservation as “M4A1s”, largely ex-Portugese tanks sold off in the late 1960s. CDP tracks and HD bogie brackets are post-manufacture retrofits on Grizzlies. Factory-fitted to Sextons but not Grizzlies. Imperial War Museum has Grizzly #1 but even that now has CDP tracks. Bovington has #25, now with CDP tracks and HD bogies. Currently on loan to the Vienna museum.

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