Machine Guns: MG42 to modern ones in Ukraine

At times during Phase II of the Q Course, which was weapons for me (later to become the 18B MOS) we would be given assignments, Usually it was a result of having committed some minor infraction, i.e. dipping in class, falling asleep, although it could sometimes be just because. I received two “assignments.” The first was to explain to the class why the AK-47 was so simple to disassemble. It really didn’t take an internet to figure that one out. My second assignment was not so easy. Explain to the class why the buffer retaining yoke on the pig has this hole in it:

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And of course not all of them had it:

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Any takers?

By the way, I carried the sixty all through Phase I.

Would that hole be version specific on the 60? If so, perhaps for the M60 C or D types and their different firing mechanisms?

I qualified at just a tick under an inch with the M16. The M14 shot about 1.5" groups, but still plenty good enough. The actual M16 I was issued shot 3/4" three shot groups consistently. The CAR15 was probably a two inch gun. Just didn’t fit and balance all that well for me.

An M60 shooting off a tripod is a different animal from the normal M60. Much greater range, and you’re able to shoot those magic palm sized groups. Off a bi-pod the 60 is probably a six in gun on a good day. I shot a lot off hand, and the belt hanging on it became an issue in itself. The shorter the better. I preferred a 25 round belt, but was often seen with a forty round belt draped over the top. Your wrist took a beating fighting with the belt hanging off the gun. Plus they always seem to stick it on the small guys (I weighed 140lb.)

The M60 was known as a crew served weapon. Snow ball’s chance in hell getting that done! The belt had feeding issues, and we wired a juice can on the side to make the belt kinda drop down onto the feeding tray. I usually had two full belts and the 25 round segment. You add the weight of two barrels and the cleaning stuff, and you well into the 50 to 60lb. range. Add water and food, and now your well over eighty pounds. No wonder my knees are bad!
gary

@18bravo what I loved so much about the GE built GAU-8 Avenger was some hilarity some might remember.

GE used to run ads all the time saying “GE we bring good things to life”

To me I heard, GE we bring good things to life and DEATH.

Yes, yes, …
MG 34 practical rate of fire was 150 rounds/minute
MG 42 practical rate of fire was 154 rounds/minute
Difference: a WHOPPING 4 rounds per minute

The MG 34 had a lower (depending on version) rate of fire so
with almost the same practical rate the MG 34 could be firing for more of the seconds in a minute.
A very short burst with many bullets leaves a longer gap when there are no bullets flying.

Which gun was most used?
“MG 34 production during the war amounted to over 350,000 units (12,822 units in 1939, 54,826 in 1940, 80,952 in 1941, 63,163 in 1942, 48,802 in 1943, 61,396 in 1944, and 20,297 in 1945)”
" Production during the war amounted to over 400,000 units (17,915 units in 1942, 116,725 in 1943, 211,806 in 1944, and 61,877 in 1945).[4] In 1943, MG 42 production surpassed MG 34 production and continued to do so until the end of the war."
Counting losses is tricky but a rough comparison could be that there were 40 MG 42 for every 35 MG 34’s.
No MG 42’s until 1942, Operation Barbarossa was initiated and maintained for maybe a year using MG 34, very few or maybe no MG 42.

It should be noted that most of the units defending Omaha beach were second rate troops (Hitler firmly believed that the invasion would be in the Calais area so the best troops were hoarded in that area).
These second rate troops also used captured machine guns (Polish Wz/30 for instance).
All German MG fire didn’t come from MG 42’s …maybe US soldiers thought it did, similar to how many Pz IV’s were reported as “Tigers”.

geez, wonder what the kill rate would have been with Waffen SS running the show then?

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Grazing fire, as I was taught at Ft Benning finishing school for boys, was knee high, not 1m high. If we had the time when preparing a defensive position, we would go out and walk the field of fire during range card preparation. Particularly along the Final Protective Fire line for interlocking fire with an adjacent position. The gunner drew out his range card and the Assitant Gunner walked it. The gunner would note were folds in the terrain would created dead space so that those areas could be dealt with by indirect fire weapons such as grenade launchers in the platoon fire plan. Each squad had range cards for each defensive position, transcribed and integrated at the platoon level, company level, etc.

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A couple of considerations there. At 880 yds/800m (1/2 mile) a man size target is smaller than the size of most any standard issue military front sight post. Without any other optics beyond iron sights, it’s very much up to the skill and experience of the shooter/gunner to hit a target at those ranges. Not to mention the ballistics of the cartridges of the weapon and barrel wear.

That’s why the phony army was displayed in the Dover area for every German recon plane to see and take photos of.

Actual for a minute or so turns the barrel into scrap metal,
that’s why.

Yeah I remember being taught that grazing fire was when the center of the cone of fire was 1 meter off the ground. Interesting how we’re taught different things at different times. Not sure but I think that was from the manual.

MG42 - German-soldier-who-defended-omaha-beach-on-d-day

“Severloh’s MG 42 was emplaced here, seven meters from the observation bunker visible at left. His field of fire was directly toward the beach and to the left, covering the eastern end of Easy Red. This photo by the author was taken at low tide, giving an indication of the “killing zone” each American soldier had to cross after leaving his landing craft.”


It’s an interesting article…~ six hours, the one MG42 in the article used it’s allotment of 12,000 rounds…roughly estimated to have cost the US Army one battalion on D Day

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Yes, and that soldier caused 200+ casualties. Which is why the bullets thru barrel is confused on how interpretation of doctrine, and actual use can get history messed up.

Barrel wear and over heating?

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Where are you getting info from that Germans were throwing away barrels?

FWIW, the matter of the degree of precision fire from a MG is best understood by looking at the definition of the “beaten zone” (referenced numerous times in @Mrclark7 manual quotes).

MG are intended / designed to create a “cone of fire,” and the area on the ground onto which the “cone of fire” intersects is the “beaten zone.” This cone of fire is the area in front of the muzzle through which all of the rounds fired in a given “burst” pass through - some rounds going high, some low, some to the left and some to the right of the precise point of aim. The rest passing somewhere within these maximum / minimum elevation and deflection points. The cone described by the maximum deviations (in elevation and deflection) with its apex at the muzzle end of the MG is the “cone of fire.” Eventually, all of the rounds which created this “cone of fire” will impact with the ground, creating the “beaten zone.”

The common doctrinal “burst” of fire of six to nine rounds fired for each pull of the trigger is intended to produce a certain probability of a desired number of casualties (the targets usually described as standing) in each “beaten zone.” However, if the range to the target area is increased beyond the usual range of “grazing fire” (generally somewhere around 600-700 meters for ~.30 cal / 7.62 mm cartridges), the number of rounds fired between adjustments of the traverse or elevation are recalculated to achieve the desired density of rounds into the larger “beaten zone” area (to size of the cone of fire generally increases as range to the target area also increases).

(I have an example of a reprinted US Army manual from the 1920s that has chapters on infantry lessons learned during WWI. One of the chapters discusses the use of MG in the indirect fire mode. In that example, the MG company commander has calculated the number of rounds each MG must fire between each traversing shift to achieve the required results on target. IIRC, each gun was firing around 1000 rounds to saturate its beaten zone on a target area about 3000 yards away from the firing position. The company was to fire a total of around 100,000 rounds during the regimental attack.)

Different armies at different historical periods have drafted their MG employment doctrines to define these characteristics according to their own requirements (things like the desired number of rounds fired for each burst, increments of traverse or elevation to overlap the beaten zones at various ranges to achieve the desired density of shots with predictable percentages of casualties, etc.).

For example, note that “grazing fire” usually anticipates the center of the cone of fire to never be higher above the ground than 1/2 the height of the standard target (usually the “standing” man) and is usually defined or specified as about 36" or 1 m. What then usually happens is that the rounds describing the bottom of the cone of fire begin to intersect the ground at about 400-450 meters with the rounds describing the top of the cone of fire finally hitting the ground around 700 meters. Note that the width of the cone of fire (and the resulting beaten zone) for grazing fire is generally around 4-5 meters at a range of about 650-700 meters. These are average planning figures for .30 cal / 7.62 mm cartridges, but individual performance should be understood to vary according the specific cartridge and MG.

However, the particular doctrine might further define the limit of grazing fire as, say, 600 meters (even though the beaten zone might continue well beyond that range). it may be that the doctrine discounts the far end of the beaten zone because the shot density for the specified burst size is too low for the desired and predictable number of casualties. Another army, on the other hand, might define grazing fire to the limit of the far end of the beaten zone but also specify that the gunner fire 10 to 15 rounds per burst.

Bottom line, though, is that MG are almost always considered area weapons in the same sense that artillery or mortars are also considered area weapons. For all of these, precision is measured in terms of predictable percentages of casualty producing effects at different ranges according to the number of rounds fired at that target / area. The question is, is it precise enough?

Damn - go off to shoot machine guns for the day - come back and find sixteen unread posts on the subject.

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