I’m currently building a Panzer iii ausf L that I want to display as one used against the Allies in Normandy after D-Day.
Research this far suggests that on 6th June, Panzer Lehr may have had a number of these operational in its panzer regiment.
I am struggling to identify which company they formed part of, which would be helpful to work out what turret numbers would be correct/probable/realistic.
The write up for the following book references it including detailed orders of battle and organisational data for the division . Before I pull the trigger on a £25 book, does anyone else have it and if so, can you tell me if it contains the information I seek?
This table is from Panzer Truppen, Vol II, Thomas Jentz, page 177. Not seeing any Panzer III listed for Panzer Lehr. Looks like only the 11th and 116th.
Steven Zaloga provides a similar table with the same figures in German Tanks in Normandy 1944. No mention of Panzer IIIs in the Panzer Lehr.
Niehorster says there were 10 (and that is the source wikipedia uses) but it doesn’t say where in the organization they were. It also doesn’t give a source.
It’s possible that they were either command tanks (“Befehlpanzer”) or OP tanks (“PanzerBeobachtungsWagen”) predating the version on the PZIV chassis, although on strength returns they were normally listed as such. The OP tanks were part of the Panzerartillerie Regiment, specifically the “Hummel” battery and usually had a dummy gun and extra radio equipment. Other PDs in Normandy had PzIII still in these roles, including “Hohenstaufen” (9SS) and “Frundsberg” (10SS). DML do one. Panzer Lehr were the best equipped Panzer Division in the German armed forces, including the Waffen SS; they were the only division to have all their Panzergrenadiere in half tracks for example, so it’s unlikely they still had PzIII gun tanks, but they would almost certainly have had the OP tanks. It’s just possible they had some PzIII for reconn, c.f. Pz II in service with “HJ”.
Another possible explanation that I’ve come across in my research is that they may have been part of the regimental headquarters company. This however appears to be based on some other units not having their best gun tanks in that company, and appears to be supposition rather than based on hard evidence.
Looks like I may be having to buy the book to see if it gives a definitive answer.
Either that or a change it to being from 116th PD, although the question of which company they were in would still persist .
FYI, I have both Furbringer’s and Trang/Tiquet versions of the “Hohenstaufen” unit history. They show that 9SS had some pretty old versions of the PzIII, including at least one Ausf E and L, but these were only used for training (they also had at least one PzIVD for the same reason) and were not used in action. This was prior to the issuing of first line equipment, so it is clear that there were numbers of obsolete panzers available in Western Europe through 1943-44 for training purposes.
My understanding is that 116th PD had some Pz IIIs from absorbing a training regiment and may have been deployed before they could be replaced with Pz IVs but I’ve not yet done a deep dive into that yet.
I’ve got a few SS PD models.planned, so ideally wanted to do the Pz III as a being from a Heer division.
Thanks Phil, that was my original starting point and I’ve been trying to follow the suggestion that there may have been Pz IIIs still in service while PDs were waiting delivery of upgrades that has been officially allocated.
It all seems a bit confused, which may simply reflect the fact the Germans were on the back foot.
.
