Hey guys, I come once again for advice! (By the way please let me know if I do this too much, I don’t want to be tactless and spam this forum every week with my posts!)
So, I’m kind of organizing my tanks into “shelves”, where each shelf has 4-5 tanks of a given “category”
And I’m kind of having a problem with my American shelf
Because, I don’t know whether I should get the Lee or Grant
Because, technically, both are American, they were both made in America.
The Grant was just built to the British specification.
But the thing is, the Grant was used by the British, barely (or not at all? I don’t know) the Americans. So while it’s an American creation, it’s not really American in spirit.
On the other hand the Lee, while being 100% American, as far as I know, barely even saw service.
So now I’m stuck between representing the tank that actually saw service and contributed a lot to the war effort as a stop gap, but is not as American, and between the tank that’s the most American tank to ever America, but barely saw service or contributed much, on my American shelf…
I even considered getting both and just have the turret of one sitting next to the tank and just swapping their turrets as I felt like! But, I don’t know that’s a bit too much haha, I’d also have to change the tracks…
So, yeah.
That’s my silly little conundrum. I was hoping you guys might weigh in and help me decide?
Side note, it’s crazy how rare M3 kits are online. Only just barely managed to find a seller selling a Grant and an Early Lee. Absurd.
My question to you is, is extensive combat service a requirement for the tank to be represented on your shelf?
I have both tanks. One sits on my American shelf, the other on my British shelf. The way I see it, while the American version saw little combat in U.S service, compared to the British version, it still represents an important U.S armored vehicle. On the other hand, the M3 also represents an important and historically significant vehicle for the British as well. Thats why I built both. However I do have a personal rule. If I build the ‘same’ tank to represent that vehicle being used by different countries, it has to be different in some significant way. In the case of the M3 Grant and Lee, the tanks differ by turrets, so that works. I wouldn’t build a typical Sherman in British service if it appears no different than an American version. Of course I will build a Firefly as theres a significant difference there, so that would qualify. I’m actually considering a third to represent an Australian version as the M3 became an extremely important tank for them during WW2. As I understand it, the Aussie version had a few homegrown modifications that would make it unique to Australian service.
Such as it is, it sounds to me that at some point, you’re going to need longer shelves
I’d say the Lee. The Grant was produced for the British but there were never enough at any one time, so they ended up accepting Lees. When tanks in the British and Commonwealth forces became obsolete in Africa and Europe they migrated east where they were still effective against the Japanese, whereas the Lee never equipped the USMC and saw only limited action with the US Army in the PTO. In addition Russia received nearly a thousand Lees (with half as many lost in transit) which they often called “Grant” even though they weren’t, and Brazil received some also.
Yes, I prefer tanks that had some sort of notable service, and that is precisely the source of my problem. I am battling between my desire to display a tank that actually saw service and accomplishments, and my desire to display a tank that is more “American”, on my American shelf.
Unfortunately, longer (or even more) shelves aren’t an option, I’m already out of real estate for shelves, despite the desire to get like 5 more
Thanks! That’s a really interesting breakdown. So then, from what I understand, the Lee got around a bit more, but like we know it didn’t really have the same kind of impact nor use in actual combat that the Grant did
My problem is that I’m trying to weigh overall historical reach and “american-ness” against battlefield significance, and I just can’t decide what’s more important to me…
I see, well, then considering overall, the Lee had very little service and even less impact, should I just go with the Grant, even though it’s far less American for an America shelf?
or should I go with the idea of getting both and just replacing the turret as I feel like?
If I were you I would get the M3 Lee and put it on your American shelf. The M3 Lee was a very important American tank. It introduced production line building to American armor. It introduced the 75mm gun to American armor. And it’s M3 hull is what the M4 Sherman was built on. Plus it saw a lot of service stateside and in North Africa.
The M3 is considered a pivotal vehicle in American tank development.
I agree with getting the M3 Lee, it was an extremely important tank to the US since by the time WW2 started America was kind of caught with their pants down in terms of their armored vehicles; and the M3 Lee was the first step towards the huge armored force the US did end up having later on in the war.
Also random side note but there’s exactly seven people in this thread that have posted as of right now, which is the same amount of crew members needed for an M3 Lee
Darn, then I guess I’ll have to get the Lee…
I’ll be honest folks, I’d much rather get the Grant. It looks better, it operated better, and it actually fought a lot!
But, if y’all are saying the Lee is a better fit for the American shelf, that’s what I’ll get!
I don’t agree with the assessment that the Lee didn’t see much combat in US hands. Compared to the Sherman, yes. But that single regiment of 1st Armored Division that was equipped with Lees saw roughly six months of combat duty, from the initial Torch Landings in November until the fall of Tunis in May. Six months of hard fighting and lessons being learned in actual combat. That’s more combat than M26 Pershings and M24 Chaffees saw in WWII. In the PTO, yes they only engaged in one short battle, Makin Atoll in US Army hands.
But they did see lots of combat in India and Burma with Commonwealth forces until the end of the war. And as mentioned above, lots of action on the Eastern Front in Soviet hands.
In the end it’s up to you, we aren’t the “what models you can or can’t buy police” hobbies are meant to be fun, so go and have fun if you’d rather have the grant!
