I’m building 2 Late Tiger 1s and a single Panther AUSF D. Wanted to have them all together so I wanted to know how I should number them ? Were they ever in the same platoon or division together? Or should I have them as a mixed unit ? Also we’re any Panthers late in the war not coated with zimmerit?
Tigers and Panthers would be assigned to the same division in only a few panzer divisions, but in separate battalions. However, only a few elite panzer divisions had an organic Tiger battalion. Most Tigers were deployed in separate battalions that were attached as needed to divisions or corps by higher command for operations. Panthers would start replacing Panzer IVs in one battalion of a standard panzer regiment in a Panzer division starting in 1944. At the end of the war, it would have been possible for Tigers and Panthers to serve together in an ad hoc Kampfgruppe that was thrown together.
Most Panther Gs were built without Zimmerit, which was discontinued early in their production.
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@Stikpusher, gave a nice summary.
In general terms…
The Panther Ausf A and G models are much more likely to be in use when the Late model Tiger 1 arrives than a Panther Ausf D.
In my opinion, any Panther D would have to be extremely lucky to survive 6 to 8 months of front line service to operate with a Late Tiger 1.
Of course its your diorama scene and you should build it the way it pleases you ultimately. Artistic License. Hollywood does it all the time:)
Near the end of the war some of the training vehicles were pressed into combat service so weird combos did happen. Rye Field Model 1/35 Tiger1 Gruppe “Fehrmann” Tiger kit is a great example of it. Early Tiger turret on a late hull with steel wheels and Zimmerit!
Anyway some factors to consider…
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Zimmerit was applied for about a year roughly from September 1943 to September 1944.
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Panther Ausf D models were the first model of Panther and for some reason the Germans didn’t start numbering the Panther series with " A " as per normal practice.
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Panther Ausf. D Production ran from Jan 1943 to Sept 1943 with roughly 842 tanks produced.
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Tiger Ausf E aka Tiger 1 production ran from August 1942 to August 1944.
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Most folks think of a Late Model Tiger 1 as having the steel rimmed wheels. The steel wheels were introduced in roughly February 1944.
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Kampfgruppe meaning literally “fight group” or “battle group”. Is the most likely sort of unit to see a mix of Panthers & Tigers in operating together.
I recall stories of “Kampfgruppe Bäke” having both Tigers & Panthers. Found an online source
Wikipedia article on Franz Bake
Heavy Panzer Regiment Bäke had 46 Panthers and 34 Tiger 1.
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Franz Kurowski is a very unreliable author known to mix fact with fantasy.
He wrote about Bäke as one of the panzer aces. Kurowski is a very faulty source for history and often just made stuff up in my opinion. Take anything based on his writing with a major grain of salt. -
Very few divisions had a heavy tank battalion assigned. Normally heavy tank battalions were under Corp control and not directly assigned to divisions as n integral part of the division.
Grossdeutschland in some of its various configurations had I believe a Tiger 1 company assigned and later also had Panthers assigned.
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The Panther replaced the Panzer III in the first battalion of the Panzer Regiment within the Panzer Divisions in the latter half of 1943. The second battalion retained the Panzer IV.
Initially, they had been deployed in independent Brigades of 45 tanks at the Battle of Kursk, but a Panther Battalion (Abteilung) was a larger formation of 56 tanks.
Three additional Panther Brigades were formed in September, 1944, but they were annihilated in combat with the US 4th Armored Division.
Tiger battalions were assigned to support larger formations as needed, so a Panther and Tiger might be seen together, but not as part of the same unit. There were ad hoc battle groups formed in March, 1945 which mixed vehicles together, though photos are scarce.
The D model Panther was rare after 1943, though a nice example was photographed as part of the Wilhelmshafen garrison after the city was occupied by the 1st Polish Armored Division in May, 1945.
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Thank you all for the info! Much appreciated and helpful.