I am familiar with military MTOEs when it comes to American and German units of World War 2. I am not too familiar with British army units though. In my stash i have an air fox Cromwell tank and a tamiya Churchill tank as well as a bronco Humber scout car mk I. I want to do a diorama of XXX Corp on the wide part of the road, my inspiration being “A Bridge Too Far” the film as well as the book. My minimal knowledge of British armor structure makes me think that Cromwell and Churchill’s would not be in same units but I could be wrong. My understanding is that the Churchill was an infantry tank and the Cromwell was a cruiser tank. I do believe Cromwell and firefly Sherman’s would have been in the same unit but maybe I’m wrong? I know “Band of Brothers” showed Cromwell and Sherman’s with easy company but usually Hollywood does Hollywood things. So my question is, Would Cromwells and Churchill tanks have been in any elements of XXX corp fighting next to each other?
For the purposes of your diorama, no. Cruiser (Cromwell and Sherman/Firefly) tank units would not be operating “next to” Infantry (Churchill) tanks, due to their differing doctrinal roles. The very premise of Market Garden was that Horrocks’ XXX Corps units would race to the rescue of the beleaguered Paras in Arnhem (as portrayed in the movie).
I’m not overly familiar with the British Armored Division TO& E. But the main tank battalion units in 1944 British Armored Divisions used Shermans, while the reconnaissance battalions used Cromwell tanks. In the Guards Armored Division they would be the Grenadier Guards, Coldstream Guards, and Irish Guards for the tank battalions, while the reconnaissance battalion was the Welsh Guards. Churchill tanks were in seperate Corps or Army level tank brigades.
Yes it is, but it is a specialised vehicle from the Royal Engineers so is not really indicative of the presence of a Churchill-equipped Tank Brigade.
Cracking photo mind, and would lend itself well to a decent diorama in its own right..
That’s a Churchill AVRE part of 79th Armoured and not a gun tank. 79th Armd were assigned as needed so could in theory appear with any other Brigade as the need arose.
Cromwells were indeed the equipment of the recce Regiments along with a Firefly until enough Challengers were built and in theatre to replace the Fireflies in the Cromwell troops. The Cromwell also equipped 7th Armoured Division, 7th didn’t use the Sherman as their main tank.
Thank you for the replies, this is what i was believing along the lines of vehicles being seen together or the feasibility of it.
For my next loaded question, would recce armor units and cruiser units have the M5A1 half track attached to them? I have the ability to get one in 1:35 and am itching to do it. I feel like it would be reasonable to say that the column depicted in a bridge too far was accurate in equipment.
43rd Wessex infantry Division which was part of XXX Corp had 43rd Recce Rgt’s armoured cars and half-tracks stuck on Hell highway. I can’t find anything to say what type/make/model of halftrack.
2nd Battalion Welsh Guards were the Armoured Recce Regt for the Guards Armoured Division, Cromwell of the 2nd shown
The Guards Armoured Division consisted (of its fighting elements) 2 x Brigades - one armoured and one infantry; 5th Guards Armoured Brigade and 32 Guards Brigade respectively.
The armored brigade composed 3 x armoured regiments (battalions) and 1 x Motor Battalion. This latter unit - 1st Motor Battalion Grenadier Guards would have been equipped with half-tracks; around 40 or so. Its other AFV was the carrier, in various guises.
The 3 x armoured regiments of the constituent Brigade were all equipped with Shermans.
The Division also had an armoured recce regiment and this was 2nd Battalion Welsh Guards. They were equipped with the Cromwell.
The armoured regiments including the recce regiment, would also have a smattering of half-tracks used by for example, the Medical Officer, the Regimental HQ, the Light Aid Detachment (REME) etc.
It is more than likely, and I have not studied the Arnhem campaign in great depth, that the Guards Armoured Division, as part of XXX Corps, would have deployed their infantry component of their 5th Brigade - in the guise of their Motor Battalion - to support their Main Effort.
That’s when Arnhem was actually liberated, April 1945, almost seven months after Market Garden, so not really relevant to the question.
I suspect he was just trying to be helpful(!)
Snotty reply I DID STATE IT WAS AFTER The EVENT!!!
Your post is not relevant.
By posting my answer I thought would be followed by the the forum members ,giving really helpful answers
And it was a success,as we received good historical information on British armoured divisions and related military units.
The Motor Rifle Battalions were equipped with M5 series half tracks and Universal Carriers.
Er, yes. See my post above(!)
Just clarifying as to the particular type of half tracks used. IIRC, the M9 and M5 family of half tracks was reserved for Lend Lease use, while the M2 & M3 series was for US use. The types look quite similar, but have multiple detail differences.
I just found this PDF of the British Motor Battalion TO&E from1938-1945 for a good dive into the changes of manning & equipment during those years.
And a good dive into the Motor Companies of these Battalions
Somewhat off-topic, but if you require a little inspiration to tackle Guards Armoured subjects, you could do worse than to watch the 1950 film “They Were Not Divided”; real Shermans on the go, and even a real Tiger. In my opinion, a cracking film.
Bloody sad ending though; made me cry as a kid.
On YouTube if nowhere else:
They Were Not Divided is a great film to watch for seeing actual WWII era equipment. Theirs Is The Glory, a movie about the 1st Airborne at Arnhem is also a good watch made in the same style.
