1st East Kent's (Buffs) & Universal Carrier ID

In my new job, I work with a guy who collects medal groups, and one of his main areas of interest are the 1st East Kent’s (Buffs), in which his grandad served in WW2 in North Africa and then Italy as a Sgt. He has recently bought the Gecko 1/16 Universal Carrier MK2, and he would like it built up, which I have said I will take on, as one his grandad would have crewed. Getting images or info on this is like trying to find hens teeth….

He has his complete war record, and I believe if he was 1st Bn, he would have been part of 18 Bde, and 1 Div, however, he could also have been attached to the 5th Bn, who I believe were part of 36 Bde and 78th Div. Does anyone know what the vehicle markings would have been, in particular on a Universal Carrier???

Any info will be greatly and warmly received….

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Talk about making your life difficult John.

Well, first off, the two Divisions mentioned were in the Tunisian campaign as I understand it, so not perhaps in what we tend to think of as the Western Desert as such. So, first off, there’s the colour problem as I think some vehicles were in green as opposed to sand (I’m not going to die in a ditch on that one though).

Both Divs then went to Italy via Sicily I believe though the 78th was recalled to Egypt for a short time. The colour problem for Italian theatre vehicles remains though, including camouflage paint schemes.

An estimate of markings would be as follows – more or less L to R as you face the front of the vehicle:

Arm of Service square and number – white on red I should think, probably 55, 56 or 57 depending on seniority within the Brigade, but this is from the laid down scheme of ’44 so may well be adrift.

A vehicle bridge plate.

The Div formation sign – white triangle for 1 Div, yellow and black battleaxe for 78. No Brigade sign unless the Brigades were independent ones, which I don’t think they were, so the Div sign prevails.

The RAC red-white-red sign was also evident on some Infantry carriers just to add to the confusion – see pic below:

(pic for discussion purposes)

Vehicle serial numbers on the sides I should think, possibly an Allied star somewhere but not necessarily, and then the geometric sub-unit markings – if applied - but God knows what they’ll be – you’ll have to find that out from the service record perhaps – but even then – as we both know – individuals can be switched at the drop of a hat (casualties etc) to different Companies. And then the colour, again possibly seniority related.

Best option: Avoid(!)

2nd best option: get your sorry self to the Regimental Museum at the opposite end of the country, in Canterbury – I think.

Good luck(!)

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I think you’d be hard pressed to find Mk.2’s in either African or Italian campaigns

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Not that it helps you John but my mother’s first husband was in the Buffs in Africa then returned for D-day (I believe 50th Division) missed Market Garden due to ill health but was retraining for the invasion of Japan when the war ended. I never met him as he passed away long before I turned up, mind you if he had still been around I wouldn’t be.

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Cheers guys for the replies all helpful :+1: …… the research keeps going …….

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May be redundant, but here is some history:

Later,

Lee

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Well, it may not help John that much but the topmost pic of the link shows a Dingo scout car sporting the formation sign of 78 Div on one mudguard, and what appears to to be the red-white-red rectangle on the other, so all heading in the right direction(!)

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Now, I have looked but can’t find any … so, are there any 1/16th WW2 Brit military figures that could be used (diver ideally) in the Uni Carrier ? I was surprised there wasn’t anything out there considering the kits have been out a fair while, and thought someone would have done one or 2 ….. I know about the 4 Para figures for the UC, but they are no good for me or this build.

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Mate could you adapt some of these?

https://www.myminifactory.com/de/object/3d-print-british-soldiers-ww2-280574

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Thanks Sam, one or 2 do have potential, thats for sure, but I will also need to ask the guy I am building it for as its his money, and then comes the issue of getting the figure(s) printed …..

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After chatting with my mate, who’s grandfathers Universal Carrier this is depicting, I have finally got the correct time frame and Div and Brigade he was attached to.

Time frame is Mar to Aug 44, and he was then in 18 Inf Bde, part of 1 UK Inf Div. And I believe they were the senior Regiment in 18 Bde.

So the nearside mudguard would have the Div marker on it, White triangle on a white square backing, and the off side mudguard would have the AoS square with the two numbers on it. I am going for the green backing for that with white numbers, but I am unsure of the two numbers,and what they represent…. Numbers being 87 , 60, 61 or 62 … what do these numbers actually represent ?? Help :grin::folded_hands:

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Hi John,

87 white on green - 2nd Inf Bde of an Inf Div. The Div is composed of 3 Bdes, and each Bde of 3 Bns.

60, 61, 62 being the constituent Bns of the respective Bde- also white on green.

So “60” would be the senior Bn within that Bde.

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John this below is for a armoured division but will help explain the numbers a bit.

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Sorry Luciano, it confuses the numbers not help I’m afraid. An Infantry Div has 3 Brigades not the 2 of an Armoured Div.

So, the Infantry Brigade ORBATs are like this:

81 - Senior Bde

55 Inf Bn

56 Inf Bn

57 Inf Bn

All white on red

87 - 2nd Bde

60 Inf Bn

61 Inf Bn

62 Inf Bn

All white on green

94 - 3rd Inf Bde

67 Inf Bn

68 Inf Bn

69 Inf Bn

All white on brown

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Thanks to Luciano and that last post Brian - That was finally the info I needed to put it all into place mate ….. After yet more sleuthing around today and yesterday, I now know that the Buffs were actually in the 3rd Bde and the 2nd senior Regiment, so by that, their offside patch should be now 68 on brown … ( I initially thought they were 2nd Bde) :+1:

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