I have a question and maybe someone can help me. The question is about the vehicles and bumper codes of a troop in the 1-4CAV in 2000.
There are
2x M998 - B6, B7
2x M113 - B77, B9
If I did something wrong, please correct me.
Thank you!
What are you asking? I don’t see a question in the above post.
Oh yes, it’s not clearly. I have two questions.
First, the amount of M998s and M113s per troop?
Second, the associated bumper codes?
I maybe dead wrong, but it seems that sometime around that year the Quarter CAV moved to Indiana and gave up their equipment. Probably still used 3/4 ton and Jeeps. I know I was kind of stunned when they showed up, and even more stunned when I found out they have little if any equipment down at Atturberry.
gary
Hi Gary. Thanks, my question is about the year 2000 as the squadron was stationed in Germany.
I think the unit is still active in the 1st Brigade, 1st ID.
Andreas
Gino, did I get it wrong? Is my statement correct?
Your question is good, I just don’t know the answer. I looked for a TO&E (Table of Organization & Equipment), but couldn’t find one for them.
I found two different TO&Es for a Cav (Recon) Troop from a Divisional Cav Squadron in a Mechanized Division, which is what 1/4 would be for the 1st Infantry Division. But the problem is one is from 1981, which is too early for your question, and the other is for a Heavy Brigade Combat Team, which is from 2011 and is too late, and would be organized differently.
As far as the M113s are concerned, my best guess would be there are probably 11 in the troop. As for the M998, the TO&E I found calls for M1051s instead.
As far as Bumper Numbers go with out the correct TO&E it would be difficult to guess, and there is no true “Army Standard”. It comes down to the unit Standard Operating Procedure (SOP). You can guess that which ever vehicles are in the 1st Platoon will probably be numbered 11, 12, 13 etc, and the 2nd Platoon 21, 22, 23, etc. But without either actual photos from that unit at that time or someone who was in that unit at that time and who has a good memory for that sort of stuff, it’s a real crap shoot.
Hey Quatercav
You might what to have a look at this web-page … or “Troop Challenge” related material:
https://m136.de/troop-challenge-2000/
Cheers
Christopher
Thank you guys!
I know this site very well. Let me explain my question a little bit more detailed. Within the last 20 years I have built or collected all vehicles of a cavalry troop. My vehicles belongs to B-Troop 1-4CAV and some to the HQ-Troop during their time in Germany. Based on photos and other reference, most of them were from the 1-1 CAV, I made the bumper codes. I later found out that the two units use different numbering systems for their bumper codes. That’s way I asked. May sound petty, but I thought try it. 
Andreas
There are a couple of things to point out with these bumper numbers that come out in these pictures.
First of all as you look at the vehicle, either from the front or the back, the numbers on the left hand side identify the major units down to the battalion level. HOW they are displayed has varied. For example, all of these start with 1-I which indidates that the major unit is the 1st Infantry Division. But at times past, the I was not included, as it was assumed that the unit WAS an Infantry Division unless otherwise
indicated. For example when I was in the 8th ID in the 70’s out vehicles, simply had an “8”. If you were in an ARMORED Division, the number was followed by a triangle, simulating the triangular shape that all armored divisions use for the shoulder sleeve insignia or “patch”. And 101 would be followed by “ABN” to indicate it was an airborne division.
Then the next numbers indicate the battalion and the type and number of “regiment” that battalion belongs to. This can get very confusing since the Army with pretty much the only exception being the Armored Cavalry Regiments, no longer groups battalions as numbered units in the parent regiment all under the command of the Regimental Commander.
For example, my battalion was 1st Battalion of the 2nd Field Artillery (Regiment). Our battalion was one of four artillery battalions under Division Artillery in the 8th ID, 1/81, 1/2, 1/83 and 3/16. The 2nd Battalion of the 2nd Artillery was at Fort Sill Oklahoma.
The OTHER change is how the TYPE of battalion is displayed. For example, the full code on the left hand side for our unit was 8-1F2, which meant 8th Infantry Division, 1st Battalion, 2nd "F"ield Artillery.
An armor battalion would have been 8-1(Triangle)68 to indicate 1st Bn, 68th Armor. The code that WE used at that time for our Divisional Cav Squadron, which was 3rd Squadron, 8th Cavalry, was NOT 3-8 CAV which you might expect from looking at the photos on the website. What was used was 3R8, with the “R” standing for “Recon”.
The two things I can tell you about the numbers on the Right hand side of the vehicles are that when you see a 11,12,13 or a 21,22, 21, or a 31,32 33 etc, this indicate 1st or 2nd or 3rd Platoon and first (Platoon leader) or second or third vehicle in those platoons. This is one of the FEW things that’s pretty much always consistent in bumper numbers.
The OTHER thing that’s pretty much guaranteed is that the number “6” is used to indicate the Commander of the unit, either at Company or Battalion level. AND given that the Troop Commander probably had both a jeep or Humvee AND a tank assigned, I’ll bet that his wheeled vehicle would have been B-6 and you can bet money that the tank marked in the photo as B-66 is the Company Commander’s tank.
From what I can see in these pictures I’m going to GUESS that this troop had 4 platoons, with the first platoon consisting of 4 Bradleys numbered 11, 12, 13, and 14, and four more Bradley’s in the 3rd Platoon numbered 31,32,33, and 34. And then 2nd and 4th platoons equipped with Abrams, and these were numbered 21,22, 23, 24, 41, 42, 43, and 44.
But that is a GUESS from what I see in the photos!!
my brother inlaw was with B Troop 1/4th CAV down in the rubber plantations in 68. When the 1st Infantry went home, the 1/4th also cleared out, but he was sent north to B Troop 1st / 1st Armored CAV. We were in the same A.O., but never knew him. Also think he did a little time with Alpha Troop 1st/4th CAV. Think he got there right after the Cholon operations ended.
gary
Again, what does this have to do with his question? He is asking about 1/4 CAV in Germany in the 2000s. Not in Vietnam.
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because they not there!! They have been located twenty minutes south of me for a long time! You need to brush up on your reading skills
gary
Make a long story short.
Tom, thanks for your explanation. I know this system well. You are right, the captain of the troop used B-66 (M1A1), B-6 (M998) and the first sgt. used B-77 (M113), B-7 (M998).
Gary, thanks. I was talking about the 1-4CAV in the 2000s. So I have to agree with HeavyArty, the 1st squadron cased their colors in Germany after they returned from Iraq (maybe 2005/06). They uncased their colors in 2014 as part of 1st Brigade, 1st Inf Division. And, I think they are still at Fort Riley.
At last let me say, because we are talking about a specific unit, right. Thank you for your service to protect both our countries!
Andreas
Still have no clue what you are talking about as 1/4 CAV is part of the 1st Infantry Division who has been at Ft Riley, KS since 2006, and in Germany before that. They are not an Indiana National Guard unit and they are not in Vietnam any longer. Additionally, you say nothing about their bumper numbers nor vehicle density, which is what Andreas is asking about. Maybe you need to brush up on your reading and comprehension skills.
In 2000, wouldn’t the 1/4 Cav be still using the same TO&E from SFOR era? The Army did not start to reorganize to the Brigade Combat Team TO&E until around 2005 or so, with all the constant unit rotations for OIF.
Here is a link to heavy Cav troop TO&E equipped with M1A2, M3 CFV, M113A3, etc. no bumper numbers of course. No year listed, but it looks like the right era.
Probably yes. I did find this MTO&E from '98 for a Div Cav Squadron. EDIT: Great minds think alike…
It lists the following:
HQ Troop
7 x M113A3
23 x HMMWV (no types listed)
It doesn’t list who gets them, but these vehicles would be spread across the staff. Each staff section (S1, S2, S3, S4, S6) would have a few HMMWVs each, as well as the Command Group (CDR, XO, CSM), and a few various other odds and ends. The M113s would probably primarily be w/maintenance and the medics.
Ground Troop (3 ground troops in a Squadron)
1 x M113A3
3 x HMMWV (no types listed)
My guess is that maintenance has the M113, and the 3 HMMWVs are for CDR, XO, and 1SG.
Stik, EDATE (Effective Date) of 980422, or April 22, 1998.
@HeavyArty 
Thanks for finding the effective date!
Well, aside from bumper numbers, I think we have the majority of his question covered. I never realized that the Cav troops had organic mortar tracks and tanks. That’s a LOT of firepower at that level.