Are tanks still relevant on the Modern Battlefield?

This example might get this off the track a little bit, but anyway…
War is literally a Real time strategy (RTS, like Starcraft, Command and Conquer, Age of Empire, etc) game. In these games, the best players are the best because they understand the weakness and advantage of different units and available resource, therefore create the best combination of available unit for their strategies and counter strategies.

Let’s not remember that, Russia is on the aggressor side, which inevitably take more lost than the defensive side. It is about being proactive vs reactive. Also, Russian army is still employing their strategy in a similar manner to the Soviet doctrine, which, well, their top leaders don’t give a damn as long as they can reach victory, just like the Red army used to do.

This is the first time we’ve seen the Russian Army try a full invasion against resistance since the end of WWII. I remain shocked at how bad they are, especially compared to their Soviet forbears. I mean, the Sovs used General Mud to beat the Nazis but he’s beating the Russians. And we never heard of Soviet soldiers selling off tires and rations and such - the corruption is killing the Russians.

Really? I reckon Chechnya and Afghanistan count just a bit? Both committed huge amounts of men and material and neither worked out particularly well for them.

Unfortunately, thats more or less misconception. Factory output and sheer weight of numbers made a bigger difference.

Afghanistan, yes. I count Chechnya as another Hungary or Czechoslovakia. But you’re right that neither worked out well. And I didn’t mean to say General Mud was the ONLY factor in WWII, rather that it was on the Russian’s side then and now it isn’t.

This is an interesting question. It reminds me of an issue facing Germany in WWII: The Ferdinand/Elephant tank destroyer. Widely considered as a failure, this formidable vehicle was indeed very vulnerable when stripped of her infantry and armored defense. Yet, when properly deployed and protected, she became the highest scoring tank destroyer of WWII. Considering that there were only 90 of them, their ratio of tanks destroyed to losses is remarkable, 10-11 to 1.

The point is that any weapons system is effective as long as it is well protected. Tanks and AFVs are no different.

Bill

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Well, it was named the ‘First Chechnyan War’, it was the largest Russian military offensive since the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan, thousands of troops and hundreds of tanks poured into the breakaway Russian republic, and the official figure for Russian military deaths was 5,732; most estimates put the number between 3,500 and 7,500, but some go as high as 14,000.

I don’t think we can say it was like Hungary or Czechoslovakia.

And then of course, there was the ‘Second Chechnyan War’…

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Really thought provoking conversation here and not without so me significant ethical food for thought.
My contribution for what its worth;
Yes they are, and will remain so- as with any weapon or weapons system -its about appropriateness of use.
In truth, the humble rock still has a place on the modern battlefield- if used properly can give the recipient a nasty headache(or worse), and if used more creatively e.g. jammed into rail points, can cause significantly more damage than that.

Speaking of rocks.
Sharpened sticks jammed into the bottom of a hole covered with leaves and twigs can ruin anyones day …

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Don’t forget to rub those sticks with that special ingredient to assure a nasty infection.

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Isn’t biological warfare illegal?

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Club and knife fighting

Robin, I just could not resist! :rofl:

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Yep. That’s it. The eternal arms race …
:+1:

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Illegal, immoral… sure. Then there’s the little matter of enforcement.

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Don’t forget this guy: Digby Tatham-Warter
image

Known for carrying an umbrella in battle, used it to take out a German armored car at Arnhem during Market-Garden!
Digby Tatham-Warter - Wikipedia
Ken

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Chechnya is an odd situation. The Chech’s control the countryside, while Russia is in control of a couple cities and one large air port. Neither side is in complete control of the countryside, but for the most part the Russians are not.

I well remember Hungary when I was a kid. It was almost a 90% urban conflict, and that’s not a good situation for armored warfare. I was away doing dirty business for foolish old men when the Czechoslovkian invasion took place. I know little about it.

  • USSR verses Germany was a multicolored affair when you step back and look at it.
    ** There was a mini ice age brought on by the droughts from the thirties. Record low temps, and huge amounts of snow. This kinda played into the USSR’s hands by a stroke of luck. The Germans tend to use vastly superior metalurgy in their equipment, and the low temps made it like glass. (firing pins and suspension parts)
    ** if you get a lot of snow in the winter, it’s gotta melt sometime or another. Then you get mud, and lots of mud at that. The USSR tanks tended to have a lower ground pressure when compared to the German tanks. Still don’t think they didn’t have issues with the mud.
    ** the one serious thing the USSR had in it’s favor was distance. Vast amounts at that. They moved their factories well outta range of the Germans. Then you add in the generic population size that they drew man power from. Also remember for most of the war, the USSR was only fighting Germans and her European allies. Japan had not gone to war with Russia.
    ** the one serious blow that brought the Germans to their knees was the Polesti Oil Raids. It did far more damage than all those B17 bombing raids did. (not counting the B17 raids on the refineries of course)
    ** Stalin once said the T34 tank was essential to winning the war, but the Studebaker truck is what won the war! With those trucks in hand they were able to do a pretty good job with their logistics.
    gary
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and then the other guy learns from you and adds chicken dodo and saw dust into his favorite item on the menu. Pits came into disfavor as they we catching both sides when in a panic. That’s when your on the merry go round. Trip wire’s and 9 volt batteries often lead to ill planed events on the otherside. He learns the art of finding that black wire, and you set a trap at the battery end. Then along comes monofilment fishing line, and the world changes again. Then somebody comes up with the scheme of making fake mines with a WP grenade under them (never stops revolving). Then we learn the art of cooking to make a better grade of mince meat (never stops). Then you start adding spices to the Foo Gas (rusty nails, barb wire, chicken crap, saw dust, and sand from the beach), but quit using raw napalm. Why? You’ve just evolved into something much more sinful and ten times nastier. Now the merry go round is not turning anymore; it spinning at a high rate. The adversary is also in a learning curve. His ChiCom mines are now planted on the sides of trees, and often command detonated. So a guy says hey lets get rid of the plant growth, and then kills everybody
gary

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A blessed take from the tall man himself :pray:t2:

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Outstanding post thank you for sharing. Outstanding video! Excellent points on video showing predominately showing one point of view.

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