Did the Nazi's win the war?

Cards on the table, I’m not an expert like most of the guys on here. I enjoy modelling and whilst always looking to improve I’m happy with the level I’m at. But what i really struggle with is the amount of World War 2 German AFV’s and figures available from the manufactures compared with the what they produce for the allies and even modern equipment. Every single variant of Germans tanks, AFV’s have been produced by every manufacture. Im happy to build modern German equipment (although there are enough Leopards on the market to start a Zoo!) but i do find myself conflicted to want to build WW2 German equipment because of what it represents.
When will manufactures share the love and produce a wider range of allied and Nato equipment?
Rant over

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Phil, may I respectfully suggest that if you’re that concerned over what the vehicles of the 3rd Reich represent, you might just be in the wrong hobby!

Build what you like; enjoy it all!

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I feel things are starting to improve in that aspect, but the reality is that German armor has a mystique built up around it that means sales for manufacturers but I find Russian armor is a close second. And I am only speaking about 1/35; I see better improvements among the smaller scales now as well.

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And in answer to your post title; that seems to be up for debate sometimes. I’ve found myself wondering that from time to time. I mean, they didn’t all go to Nuremberg.

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Phil, further to my last: I assure you, we’re not all experts by any means. We might think we are but we’re not; we may have garnered certain techniques and no small knowledge along the way, but I still find myself learning. Everyday a school day(!)

Also regarding NATO stuff (I major on the Cold War so my comments are a bit limited), there’s not that much missing from the respective inventories I feel - at least for the Cold War period. More modern stuff, I’ll pass over to those with more knowledge. Whilst as you identify, every last German WW2 effort seems to have been done to death, yet is still expanding, NATO stuff (and for that matter, Sov and Warsaw Pact kit), is pretty much covered too.

Finally, as I said before, choose and build what you fancy; you’ll find advice and encouragement at every level on this site, probably one of the better ones to be honest.

The pull of the Black Cross is rather strong in the hobby. I wonder if it’s because the Germans went to war in double-breasted suits by Hugo Boss?

My own gig is US and UK WW2, but I do get a little tired of spraying everything green…

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Tom, your last comment got me thinking a bit (and also as to why I chose the Cold War as my theme). I used to think - originally - that during the Cold War, most NATO stuff would be in Olive Drab, and the opposition in Russian Green. As we all know, not a bit of it!

I don’t necessarily mean the Berlin FIBUA scheme, but say, the Brit experimental stuff throughout the 50s and 60s, the Canadian schemes of the 70s, let alone the US with MASSTER, MERDC, Dual-tex. Good old Brits in black and green, but that’s better than plain green(!) I’ll grant you the other side of the IGB things were a little more regimented, but then one had those mad almost abstract schemes of the Czechs, the Sovs with sometimes a sand overspray over their green, and then, towards the end, the East Germans with their tri-colour plan.

Obviously I’m somewhat biased, but I’m glad I concentrated on what I chose(!)

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Once you get more established in the hobby, start looking at offerings by less well known manufacturers, and learn about models of the last decade not currently in production, you will discover that the number of vehicles available in 1/35 and 1/72 scales has massively ballooned over the last 20 years. There are now broad offerings of vehicles from World War I, the interwar period, all sorts of peripheral vehicles from World War II, Cold War vehicles, and modern vehicles. A significant number of civilian cars and trucks continue to appear. We are currently living in the age of military truck models. The variety of figures now available is growing more rapidly than trucks. Even planes are starting to appear in 1/35 scale.

If you add in 3D printed stuff, the explosion in variety increases by a full magnitude.

Yeah. No. Look around some more.

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Fascism, sadly remains alive and well in today’s world but it’s not related to plastic model building. The source is the same as always…bad turn of events plus exceptionally amoral leaders, repeating the same BS from the 1920’s & 1930’s with a few updated terms.

One should model build in whatever manner is most enjoyable for the builder, in my experience.

#1) Maybe ignore the German WW2 AFV part of the hobby and focus on what’s interesting to you. Why would you care what sort of AFV models are available for someone else to build?

#2) Most kit demand comes from the Pacific Rim area not Europe or North America.

#3) Winning WW2 and having the most interesting subject matter for sales aren’t necessarily going to be related.

Build what you like.

It’s a plastic model kit build not a declaration of morality.

Modeler’s vote with their pocket book, buying what appeals to their interests.
I think that’s why Modern & Cold War AFV’s are on the upswing in popularity.

Manufacturers tend to focus on subjects with the strongest sales figures because they’re in business to make money :moneybag:

As for myself, I’ll enjoy this Golden Age of AFV modelling & building lots of different manufacturer’s Panther’s, Tiger’s, Pz IV’s Pz III’s, T-34’s KV’s, Shermans, Cromwell’s and whatever else strikes my fancy.

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Do Soviet or Russian subjects offend you,what about ChiCom equipment,North Korean or North Vietnamese,Cuban.and WWII Japanese,In the current climate many might not like what IDF equipment represents.The list goes on and on,SADF equipment.Many hate the US these days and would be offended by that.

I mean everyone makes choices and has their thresholds, but for me,equipment is just what it is,equipment,some might say our whole hobby glorifies war and killing machines.

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Well, they seem to have been the best-dressed military at the start of the war, which is odd considering how fashion-conscious were the Italians and French… I recall an American describing an encounter in Italy which went something like "He was a typical British Infantryman, short, scruffy, helmet at an angle, soggy stub of a cigarette in the corner of his mouth and festooned with grenades… ) Having grown up in the 20’s and 30’s many of the “Other Ranks” would have been stunted by marginal malnutrition, and this effect persisted during the period rationing continued after WW2. What surprised me was when an acquaintance mentioned that his son - a regular army Sergeant - had commented the majority of U.S. soldiers he had encountered in Afghanistan appeared taller and more muscular than most British troops.
But don’t underestimate the impression a smart uniform can have on the feeble-minded, when I was a schoolkid buying bendy plastic soldiers two sets of ACW figures came into the shop; I could only afford one box and in total ignorance of the conflict I went with the more brightly-coloured Confederates with their strange flag. I doubt I would get away with drawing the “Stars and Bars” on the front of my school exercise book nowadays even in the U.K…

Cheers,

M

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That reminds me of one of my favourite WW2 pics: the Herrenvolk being marched into captivity in Normandy by just such a British Army specimen. I just love it!

image157

No other words are necessary…

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The smallish British soldiers did have an advantage though,
they could use smaller fox-holes.
Vehicles and tanks could be made smaller or the potential
recruitment base was larger (more short-arses to choose a
tank crew from).

The Germans in North Africa did comment on the large Australians …

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I totally agree with you, my main response to the usual comment “it is just a hobby, build whatever you feel like” is that when I start a project I usually study a little bit about the subject, who used it, when, under which conditions-to help me determine what I am going to build exactly and how I should weather the vehicle. So naturally I look at photos and try to find if possible first-hand narratives, i.e. from the people that actually used the vehicle… So if I were to build a German WW2 vehicle (on the rarest occasions I have done so) I would have to come in contact with some really nasty fellows more often than not, watch photographs, read the war record of a particular unit (which usually entails the wholesale massacre of civilians) etc. And so I find it extremely difficult to build a German WW2 vehicle, knowing what its crew most likely perpetrated and frankly I consider the argument “it is just a hobby, there is no politics involved” a bit stupid, just a lame excuse to build another "Peiper Tiger II’ without taking into account what Peiper did during the war…

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1000035798

My Virtue Signaling is basically limited to refusing to model anything related to…

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Weeeeell… good coffee DOES matter!
In part because it’s so hard to find one.
So there’s that… Just saying. :grin:

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I think this was indeed the case for T-64 and T-72 crews wasn’t it - back in the days of the Soviet Union?

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That might be the clearest best simplest explanation I’ve ever read. Similar to my wife telling someone that a vote for the political candidate of her choice is not a love letter to that person, it’s a strategic chess move as to how you want the country to be in the future.

@hotdogwithonions , I’m very focused on the Pacific war. I build air, naval, and land subjects of Imperial Japan - the people that almost killed my dad when they sunk his cruiser, and then tried again as they tried to sink the ship upon which he escaped Java. Dad never objected to me building Japanese subjects. His friend Dave, who the Japanese captured after the sinking, and spent time languishing in a Burma POW camp and then in a “hell ship”, I asked him once what he thought of the Japanese? Was an IBM representative to Japan for a decade, and he told me he loved the Japanese he thinks they’re wonderful people. Over the years I’ve met or read of people who fought the Germans/Italians/Japanese/Koreans/Vietnamese/Russians (by extension); some of them hate them, some of them see them as mere pawns of their government and no different from “the good guys.”

Blah blah blah, the gist of it is that you are building models of history, represented by figures and equipment. You’re not signaling approval of what those historical events were trying to achieve. It galls me when somebody shows up with a German tank or wearing a German looking camouflage hat and starts a 20 minutes apology trying to establish their bona fides that they are not neo-nazis or whatever. A friend gave me a shirt titled “Tank Busters”, showing a T-34, Henschel 129, and a cannon-armed Stuka; another friend saw me wearing it once and made some quip about me celebrating a bloodthirsty dictatorship, and I asked her if she meant the violent repressive regime that killed tens of millions of people, or the Germans?

Do not get caught up in the hype and agendas out there. There are people trying to draw battled lines all over society to further countless agendas. Model what interests you.

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One of my great modelling missed opportunities was not to have built (in time) the AFV Club leFH18 10.5cm Howitzer and its Sd Kfz 11 tractor for my late Uncle Heinz (ex 9 SS Pz Div Hohenstauffen, but a great bloke).

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I don’t know what sort of expertise you think is necessary; one need only understand three things:

  1. Most hobby companies are extremely small and release what their principals a) want to see kitted and b) think will make them some money, or at least break even.
  2. Wehrmacht equipment is viewed as technically cutting edge, whether it was or not; was produced in a great number of different designs and variants, even to the practical detriment of their war effort; and was seen in innumerable variations of colors, markings, and weathering, providing many opportunities for differently appearing models. Combine that with the many books and films involving those subjects in wartime over the last 80+ years and there a lot of interest in the subjects.
  3. Companies have attempted to address demand with their new releases. Even new kits of existing subjects have consistently had a leg up on the money-making aspect. It used to be thought that Wehrmacht models sold only because that’s what people could get, but with the expansion of companies and releases in the last 35 years Wehrmacht gear still seems to have market draw despite the many, many other subjects now available in kit form.

For WW II Allied equipment, probably never. For NATO gear, based on the Wehrmacht example, about 25 years after there is a global war involving that equipment.

KL

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