Italeri Sd. Kfz. 234/2 Puma

modelbouwnederland · 4 September 2023 06:12

I’m facing a difficult situation with my study/research for my project

I’m currently facing a difficult situation, in which I think I need some help from you guys. Currently, I’m reading through the book Scouts Out. Originally intended as a study for the Sd. Kfz. 234/2 Puma from Italeri. Which I’m planning to build somewhere in time this year. And I want to do this in the autumn and/or winter. Which is coming soon here in the Netherlands. But, I think I’m getting to a point that I’m just not wanting to read on any further. And that I want to have some action, some doing for the project. But, I have made a whole action plan with goals for this study. And one of the goals is that I’m reading through the book from the beginning to the ending. I have already finished 3 of the 5 chapters to read. But with the 3 chapter on the end, there were difficulties already. I really had to bring myself to reading out the chapter. Because I didn’t really had the motivation to read it out.
So, now I’m facing some difficult decision making work. Do I stop reading and thereby stop the plan. Which might be making me a quitter of my own plan. Or, do I read on with all possible consequences of it that it has on my further motivation and working on the project?
I honestly find it hard to make a decision in this matter and that’s why I need some more experienced knowledge of you to help me out.
I have learned my lesson now. And I now know what you meant when you were talking in the previous topic I posted about research. That you first ask questions before comitting to doing any studying and researching in the first place. And that’s what I’m wanting to do for a next project. But for now, I need a solution for this situation.
And it’s really playing on my mind.
I’m also having other options I thought of, maybe put the book aside for a while and continue researching on the computer and the internet.
Watching some video’s of the subject for reference, talk on forums with others about the subject. But, that would mean that the building phase and other preperations I still need to do before I’m actually ready to start the building phase of the project itself gets delayed by weeks or even months.
So this is the dilemma I’m facing.

Why did the Sd. Kfz. 234/2 Puma have a diesel engine, while the other reconnaissance vehicles had petrol engines?

I have seen some photo’s in the book I’m reading about the subject, but I don’t actually see much weathering going on. When I’m doing a quick search on the internet on my phone on the internet or images. I don’t get pictures of the vehicle in action. By the way I’m using Brave search.

When I’m wanting to look up the versions of painting and marking given in the kit instructions in my book or online. I’m not seeming to have a lot of succes with this. Why is that?

What can you tell me about the 20th PanzerAufklärungs Abteilung of the 20th Panzer Division Görlitz?

I might have more questions, but I think this might be enough now for this topic for today. Thank you in advance.

Tommi_Lukkarinen · 4 September 2023 09:21

I’m not quite sure why reading up on the vehicle is giving you difficulties? I’ve run into the same issue with trying to find pictures of the Sd Kfz 234, I figured it would be because the vehicle was a bit rare and the recon battalions in the end war probably often didn’t have propaganda photographers with them.

modelbouwnederland · 4 September 2023 09:41

The problem is that I concluded that my studying intended for the project is probably over in the book. Because I believe that I probably have to continue my journey either on the internet. Or in some other way, like I have described in the post above. And because I made a whole plan, to read the book all through the end. There in lyes the problem. It took me 3 whole days to make the plan. And, if I’m just going to stop like that. Well, it would be choosing the easy way in my opinion. But on the other hand, daily life and time continues. It doesn’t stop. And because I have so much more to do… But now it is even getting complicated for myself to answer this…

varanusk · 4 September 2023 10:39

If you want to build a 234/2, in my opinion the best source is Nuts&Bolts vol. 40:

It has colour profiles, in action photos and much more information on the whole 234 series. I would use this book and try to make my model with that. Any other question you may have would be difficult to answer, I am afraid, as there were not many built.
Be aware that if you want to detail Italeri kit, it will take some work.

modelbouwnederland · 4 September 2023 10:48

And what about the rest I wrote?

Uncle-Heavy · 4 September 2023 12:55

“It was to have a monocoque chassis with eight wheels, and an air-cooled engine for use in North Africa.”

North Africa = hot and water is a valuable resource.
Air cooled = no radiator with water that can start to boil (overheating engine)
Which factory can supply air cooled engines? Tatra produced air cooled diesels.
The reason for the diesel engine was that it was available and solved the problems.
It was too noisy though so it got redesigned: " Due to problems with the excessive noise of the first engine, a second model was developed, the Tatra 103."

Hohenstaufen · 4 September 2023 13:19

I have seen some photo’s in the book I’m reading about the subject, but I don’t actually see much weathering going on. When I’m doing a quick search on the internet on my phone on the internet or images. I don’t get pictures of the vehicle in action. By the way I’m using Brave search.

I think you won’t see much weathering because this is a late war vehicle that didn’t see huge amounts of action. They also tended to be used on roads or tracks rather than across country. IMHO a lot of weathering is overdone, particularly on late war vehicles such as this, which could have a service life of weeks rather than years.

When I’m wanting to look up the versions of painting and marking given in the kit instructions in my book or online. I’m not seeming to have a lot of succes with this. Why is that?

This may be because kit manufacturers paint and marking schemes aren’t always that accurate. I’ve seen identical marking schemes for the same armoured vehicle with and without Zimmerit. Some just cop out completely and just default to “unknown unit”. I almost never use the manufacturers scheme and markings and I’ve taken to painting markings rather than using manufacturers transfers. You are better find a photo that you like and following that.

Damraska · 4 September 2023 21:17

The most recent boxing of Italeri’s 234/2 includes markings for a vehicle from 20 Panzer Division at Gorlitz in May 1945. Your last question leads me to believe you wish to model that vehicle.

Unfortunately, my small library does not include any books covering type 234 armored cars. An internet image search did not uncover a period photo of any vehicle numbered 024.

The markings in the most recent boxing of the Italeri 234 are new. They may be based on a photograph in a recent book. If so, the desired picture may not be posted to the internet.

With regards building versus researching, you will need to decide how accurate is accurate enough. There is no right answer. If you absolutely must build the world’s best 234/2, you will need to keep reading and researching. If you can accept a model built to the limits of your current knowledge of the vehicle, you can start now.

I do not know your personality or where you are in your model building journey. If you are still near the start, learning to make better models, excessive research will stunt the growth of you building and painting skills. If you are near the end of your journey, you may only want to create masterpieces.

Regardless of where you are in your journey, if this 234/2 does not ultimately meet your goals you can build another. And another. And another.

Regardless of what you decide, good luck with your project! I enjoy sleuthing and will keep looking for 024 as time permits.

Edit:

I wonder if this is 024 or another vehicle from the same unit. All the vehicles shown have very obviously surrendered. The turret number begins with a 0. To me, the next number looks like a 3.

Armor_Buff · 4 September 2023 22:19

That is the absolute truth. I also wish you the very best in your modeling endeavors.

However, nothing is a bigger waste of time than research when one is learning and acquiring model build skills.

Spend your valuable time building & doing modeling. That will help more than any amount of basically pointless research at this stage. Model building skills have to be developed before the benefits of research can be applied.

The Italeri 234/2 isn’t a very good kit by 1990’s standards never mind today’s standards. The kit released in 1980.

My Italeri 234/2 was so rife with sink marks so I tossed the kit in the trash can. Parts were also molded out of register. It was worthless trash. Not all of the Italeri 234/2 kits are like that but many are absolutely terrible mold quality.

Slap the Italeri 234/2 Puma together now and have fun with it. Then build something else.

Later as your skills develop, get a Dragon 234/2 (released in 2006). It’s a 10 times better model than the crappy Italeri 234/2.

108330-10518-t360

The AK 234/2 Puma a version of the Dragon kit very good and maybe easier to find.

1423935-129919-60-t360

The AK kit has markings for four 20th Panzer Division 234/2’s listed.

modelbouwnederland · 5 September 2023 07:30

@Hohenstaufen I have found a picture in the book I’m currently reading, Scouts Out. They are of bad quality. But they nearly look identical. The camouflage scheme and everything. Except for the turret numbering in the wrong order. That leads me to believe, according to what you are telling me. That this might be the right vehicle. But the manufacturer could have messed up the order of the turret numbering in their instructions.
The photo is of bad quality, they also say this in the book. So I can imagine that this leaves a lot of room for imagination and own creativity to play a role. Maybe this is where you and the others here can come into view as well. Helping me to decide which steps may be best for me to take.

@varanusk Thank you for the book recommendation. I already suspected that the vehicle could be very rare. As in the book suggested, there were very few examples of these vehicles build. And only two years production run. So yeah, thank you for the suggestion and recommendation.

@Damraska and @Armor_Buff I totally agree with you two. And I was just thinking a few hours back. When I’m learning in the right ‘order’ I’m learning really fast. It feels easy. And not as much of a burden as it is now. But then I still got questions. But that is when I’m going to rely heavily on this forum and possibly others. Since Wade said, time indeed is a incredibly precious resource. And if I’m going to start doing. I need you guys to help me supply the knowledge I need for it.

Anyway thanks for all your replies so far. And I have been able to pull myself together. And I’m having some new directions and things to think of. Thank you.

Mead93 · 5 September 2023 14:25

I agree with @Armor_Buff. While questions like “Why a diesel engine” might be important, they are completely tangential to building the 234/2 you want to build. Endlessly searching for answers to these type of questions won’t make you a better modeler at your stage but cracking the kit open and starting to build will

modelbouwnederland · 6 September 2023 07:19

@Mead93 Thank you, chances are I’m going to decide to start actually doing stuff for my scale modeling hobby. What I’m going to do is the question, because I currently don’t have much money to spend on the hobby. At least this month. But I could try exercising with my airbrush, trying out the new paint sets I got from AK Interactive. And ready the airbrush equipment for use for the hobby.
I might still be occasionally reading a book like this, but then as a ‘seperate hobby’ detached from the model making projects themselves. Because World War II in general still interests me a lot. And I’m getting more attracted to specific books like the ones shared already with me. And I might still read this for the fun of it, with no pressure. But again, detached from the projects ands the scale modeling itself.
This was something I was thinking about for some time now, but never actually executed it, but now with some backup from you guys. I might actually able to finally put it into action.
So thank you.

smolensk · 11 September 2023 14:52

Hello Roland
I waited a while before writing to you.
I believe that knowing the models in detail is necessary to produce a faithful replica.
However always remember that ours is an illusion in the sense that we try to reproduce in small what would be in large by simulating materials, people , environments and more… ok prepare yourself but sooner or later you start to glue something or you get over it…

MontanaHunter · 12 September 2023 01:43

I’d like to give you a different idea to think about. Do a study on your kit, look close as mentioned above on the overall quality then decide how much energy to put into your research. Tailor that effort to what the kit deserves. Case and point-two weeks ago I decided to take a breather/short break from my armor kits and decided to throw together an airplane. So I dug out a Revell 1/48th A-10 I got on the cheap. Quick exam quickly lead me to decide I’ll buy a nicer one to really detail later but this I decided straight out the box and I did take some time to really work on my seam filling skills, do a nice paint job, work diligently on my decal application with light weathering. Just a quick glance at some general references and honestly they only thing I changed was liberating a Sidwinder missle from a Revell Superhornet that beat down my moral. I quickly realized the overall quality of the kit didn’t warrant the fun exploration in the pursuit of accuracy and detail. Sometimes a kit is just a kit, other times a kit is an opportunity to really challenge yourself.

modelbouwnederland · 24 September 2023 12:02

I have been excercising recently with my airbrush and I got a question. How do I clean my airbrush in my ultrasonic cleaner? Harder en Steenbeck says in their manual of their Harder and Steenbeck Evolution 2 in 1 to lay a rubber mat on the bottom of the ultrasonic cleaner to protect the airbrush from damaging. Or I guess in my case, in the basket I have to put into my ultrasonic cleaner. Since the instruction manual states that I must never put things directly on the bottom of my cleaner. And always use the basket.

What rubber mat should I purchase? If I need to purchase any. According to my experience using my ultrasonic cleaner once to clean the body of my airbrush without using a rubber mat in the basket, my airbrush got scratched by moving on the bottom of the basket while the ultrasonic cleaner was running.
I don’t know about the other parts of my airbrush.
If cleaning ultrasonic is timesaving and labor saving, I would gladly us it.
Since it seems like I’m more cleaning my airbrush and setting things up, then I’m actually spending time spraying with it.

I’ve also tried out the for me new AK Interactive 3rd generation acrylics paint sets I bought this year or whenever I did go to Modelbouwenzo in Hoorn, the Netherlands.
I believe that I have mastered the double action technique on my airbrush enough to spray with it comfortably. And I think with a pressure of 2 bars I’m also good with that.
But I’m still experiencing tip drying.
Since it’s hard for me to get any direct help from a person face to face, I’m also asking here.
I’ve already tried out some different mixtures with the airbrush.
1 on 1 was way to think to blast through my airbrush, I concluded that when cleaning the airbrush.
When my nozzle and front of my airbrush were full of thick paint.
The ‘Tamiya’ mixture of 2 to 1. One part paint two parts thinner, however you wanna call it.
Seemed still to thick, but better than the 1 on 1 mixture of paint.
Still found lots of thick paint in my nozzle, I’m not sure of the rest of my airbrush front.
And I did clean the airbrush enough to let it work properly, since I always test beforehand if it works correctly with spraying water and/or some thinner or cleaner through the airbrush as well and it works fine.

I’ve also tried as my airbrush teacher said, to clean the front of the airbrush nozzle where the aircap in located where the point of the needle comes out the airbrush. With a wet cotton swap with airbrush cleaner, or alcohol. And maybe it did do something. But I’m not sure. Because I still got an irregular spraying pattern from time to time.

I also tried the tip of airbrush assylum to do a ‘blast through’ of the airbrush. To press the trigger and go full throttle on the pulling back for paint on the trigger. To blast out all the dried up paint. But still got the problem.

What else could I try while airbrushing to solve the problem? Could an retarder solve all the issues I’m having with this well known problem with airbrushing acrylic paints?

The only guess I have is that I’m still a little scared with pulling back the trigger to far, since my airbrush teacher told me to never pull back further than halfway on the trigger. That’s my guess what could be wrong. But I would like to know what you think about it.

My current mixture of 10 drops of thinner with 2 drops of paint seems to be the closest mixture to airbrush with with less trouble than the other mixtures I’ve tried.

After calling with Modelbouwenzo when I was airbrushing explaining the issue I had. They still said that there shouldn’t be a problem with a 1 on 1 mixture to spray through my airbrush. And that there could be a problem with my airbrush. Which I don’t think so.

The bottom line is, I’m pretty sure that it’s tip dry causing the problem for me. And that I need to do something about that to eliminate the problem. And I hope you can help me out with this. Also, this shows that everyone’s situation is probably unique and everyone says something different.

Happy modeling and a great week,

Roland

Armor_Buff · 28 September 2023 05:17

When using my ultra sonic cleaner, I just put the parts that need cleaning in the basket and run a couple of cleaning cycles. Nothing to it really. Plenty of YouTube information available etc.

Not a fan of my Harder-Steenbeck Evolution. Relegated it to mostly spraying gloss coats & flat coats or filters. However my Evolution sprays fine at ~15 psi or ~1 bar. Sprays Tamiya unthinned out of the bottle no issues. Normally thin Tamiya ~30 to 50 percent depending. Haven’t used AK in my HS-E so can’t comment on that.

Definitely sounds like there’s an issue if it needs 2 bar/30 psi to spray AK’s 3rd Gen hobby paint. My guess is your airbrush could use a good ultrasonic cleaning. Probably several cycles of cleaning. Doesn’t take but a little dry paint to cause issues on any airbrush.

Note being on the trigger flowing a lot of air without pulling back much on the trigger to flow paint can increase or aggravate dry tip issues.

I’m sure some of the other folks will have good suggestions.

modelbouwnederland · 1 October 2023 07:41

First I show the part that hasn’t been painted or worked on, so you hopefully can see the difference with the side that has been worked on. Especially with the painting part I’ve done with my new paints. Grey MIG One Shot Primer. And AK Interactive Dunkelgelb Initial of their paint set of German Tank Colors of 1933-1944.

Here’s a picture I took during the painting process in order to see the result better. Because the sun was overlighting my workpiece. And since the color was dark yellow already. I couldn’t see the result very much.

These are two photo’s I took just a few minutes ago. Since the natural lighting wasn’t very good. I tried my best using my daylight lamp I also use to work on my projects and when I’m airbrushing in the barn. I hope you can see the results of the painting.
Personally, I’m pretty satisfied with the result so far. But I’m not sure if I needed to put on more additional coats. Or that it is supposed to look like this.
Since the primer below the paint layer is grey.
So it tones down the brightness of the paint.

Please give my sharing via cloud links a chance, because it makes sharing my works on the internet in more then one place much more convenient, time saving maybe and a lot less exhausting then doing it this way.
Keep in mind I’ve just made my account here, I’m still brand new to this and I can mistakes to.
But I will learn fast.

Happy modeling and a good weekend,

Roland

Armor_Buff · 1 October 2023 13:03

Roland, I don’t think many folks will chase clicking on links when posting directly on the forum is very easy and only takes a few seconds. Basically, on this forum one can upload a picture faster than one can add a link.

Chasing links is very inconvenient to the viewer.

modelbouwnederland · 1 October 2023 14:05

Thank you for your opinion, than I will stop with using links and upload and post directly one the forum.

Then I might keep the cloud to myself as a private place for my library of scale modeling photo’s.

Have a nice day,

Roland

modelbouwnederland · 8 October 2023 08:59

Here are some previous results of my project. I first primed with Mig OneShot primer grey. But I have problems with spraying the primer. If interested, please ask me for further details on the problem to help. I will provide them happily.

![IMG_20231008_104646|375x500]
(upload://jvFVDTn55DK1x5toBewHhhquKz.jpeg)

These are the results of yesterdays airbrush session. Still having problems with spraying oneshot primer. But despite the problems, still managed to prime the parts. And I find it turned out well.

Monday I will apply the dark yellow color with the airbrush. Photo’s will follow soon after.

If interested, feel free to ask questions or details. I’ll provide them happily. Thanks for taking the time to checkout this update.