Marking were same as tanks and trucks. Division, Bn, Company and number. My tank was 3/2-64/B66
3ID/ 2nd BN 64th Armor. B Company, command section, command tank. Google images of US vehicles in Germany in 1970’s and you should get plenty.
Marking were same as tanks and trucks. Division, Bn, Company and number. My tank was 3/2-64/B66
Assuming that’s 1/37 Armor I think that the left side as you face either the front or the back of the vehicle would be 1^1^37, (should be a triangle reflecting the shape of the Armored Division patch) indicating 1st Armored Division, 1st Battalion, 37th Armor. On the right side would be the Company designation and the vehicle number. If all the M114s were in a scout recon section/platoon in the Headquarters Company that should probably be “HQ” and if they were in the Combat Support Company (I’m not that familiar with those TOE’s) it would probably be “CS”. As far as the actual number, you’d have to either have photos or someone who was there to get that, since I doubt that every Armor unit in USAREUR used the identical numbering system at the company level.
BTW, my dad was assigned to 1/37 Armor in Crailsheim when the battalion was part of 4th Armored Division from August 1961-August 1962. When my mom and sisters and I moved to Germany after the Berlin Wall scare of 1961 had died down, he was transferred to Goeppingen which was the Division Headquarters.
We were at my grandparent’s house, literally 2 days away from all going overseas together when the wall went up. My dad went, we stayed in CONUS, and my mom had to figure out how to recover our hold baggage, household goods and car which had already been shipped in anticipation of our move. Not to mention finding a place to live and get us into school. Fun times!
Long ago, I found these pictures within internet and in other sources. For discussion only.
M114 always fascinated me despite I have seen it only once when a US unit was on autumn exercise in my town, must have been around 1972-1974. I am living in the once british sector.
Thanks Andreas, the first picture is quite useful as it shows some of the pattern of camouflage on the upper surfaces; the Takom kit instructions do not include an overhead view.
I haven’t seen M114 in the flesh so to speak, but I do remember vehicles joining our Corps HQ on exercise in the MASSTER scheme. They were office truck variations of the M35 and Gama Goat.
You maybe are of the museum at Saumur F which has a licely painted example. Maybe you can in come in contact with someone who took top shots. At least from the sides it looks quite nice so the scheme nay have been taken from original source.
You may also, for the top, take a look at the M113 scheme and take this as a guide line. M113 seems to have a similar scheme as M114.
Yes, Co.C, 1/37th in Katterbach. I will mark for Combat Support, CS 1 something, as I do not recall there being that many across the motorpool from our tank line. They would be scouting for us, when we went out to our deployment area during alerts.
The photos Andreas posted are very instructive. They show M114s from not only three different Divisions, but two from a Mech Infantry Battalion and one from an Armor Battalion. The first one is from 3rd Infantry Division, and the 1I-30 indicates that it’s from 1st Bn, 30th Infantry. It shows that the vehicle is assigned to Combat Support Company, which confirms that these vehicles from the recon/scout section/platoon were in Combat Support Company.
The next two are from 8th ID and are from 3rd Battalion 68th Armor. Again, the CS indicates it’s part of Combat Support Company.
And the last one is assigned to 1st Infantry Division, and the 1-I-16 shows that it’s 1st Battalion, 16th Infantry (confirmed by the Regimental insignia on the wall of the building in the background) And again, Combat Support Company.
You’ll notice that the 1st ID vehicle has a small dash between the “Divisional 1” and the 3rd ID vehicle does not. There is NO correct way to put bumper numbers on other than the way the Battalion CSM says to! Clearly these vehicles would have been in the Combat Support Company.
As to the actual vehicle number, if you’re making a model of any of these EXACT vehicles, no problem. If you’re making one from 1/37 Armor, here’s my suggestion. The 1/37 was part of 3rd Armored Division and in V Corps. So was 8th Infantry Division. Unless you have actual photographs which show different, I would go with CS 27 just because since both Divisions were in the same Corps, there’s a higher chance that both would have been prescribed a similar marking scheme from Corps HQ. But again that’s a guess.
However, no need to guess on the paint pattern. Attached are the actual pages from the regulation which originated the MASSTER scheme and show the pattern for the M114. This is what was actually handed out to the troops in the field and was used to chalk off the patterns by hand and paint by number.
Because this was done by the troops in the Motor Pool there WILL be some variations in application, so there’s no need to be “perfect” which is why I love MASSTER. What YOU paint on by hand is NEVER WRONG!!
BTW, I’ll say it again. I have all the patterns which were the attachment to the regulations from USAREUR, VII Corps and V Corps from 1973 which initiated the program, but NOT the actual regulation itself. If anybody can get there hands on the basic regulation, I would LOVE to have a copy since it appears to have vanished!
So very true!
The 1/37 was part of 3rd Armored Division and in V Corps.
When I was there, 1/37th was in the 1st AD and VII corps.Oct 74-oct 78
Carl, you are exactly right! I misread my chart. 1/37 was absolutely a VII Corps and 1st AD unit! Gotta get my glasses checked!!
Thanks Carlos (got this pic myself), but I’ll probably go with the Takom options, that is one of the two MASSTER schemes (they provide two OD options as well); they cite:
2nd Bn, 13th Infantry Regiment, 8th Infantry Division
1st Battalion, 30th Infantry Regiment , 3rd Infantry Division
I’ll probably go with the first one as that depicts the use of the black star. Strangely, the two MASSTER schemes are completely different and neither seem to bear any resemblance to Tom Hathaway’s plans. All a bit of a conundrum MASSTER!
Not surprising. As I said, “Joe” got the template, chalked off the outlines as best as they could from that, and then it was literally a “paint by number”.
Those are the exact templates which were provided in the Regulations published in 1973 directing USAREUR to implement the program, so that’s the best starting point. But there is no perfect or totally wrong pattern.
My personal opinion is that I’d go with the 2/13 vehicle. Why you might ask? Because 2/13 was one of the five battalions stationed in Baumholder in 2nd Brigade, 8th Infantry while I was there.
A bit more on the much-maligned M114.
I was a company commander in 2nd of the 30th Inf, Schweinfurt, GE in 71-72. At the time I took over my company the M114s were assigned to the Scout Platoon of HHC… along with AT and 4.2 mortar platoons.
My Bn commander didn’t like that arrangement (weak HHC cdr) so he parceled out the HHC combat elements to the line companies. I got the 4.2 mortar and scout platoons assigned / attached to my rifle company so, besides having my own “task force” I inherited a training nightmare. But, after some “adjustments”, it began to work out and, actually, became a hell of a lot of fun when we went to “Area M”, our local training area.
Quick (and maybe useful) story for those building a 1/35 M114A1E1. As I recall, the actual track on an M114 was a “rubber band” type of track; i.e., all one piece, with very little “sag” if adjusted properly. “My” scout platoon leader decided that several of his M114s needed new tracks so he ordered multiple (dozens) of them. So, when these huge boxes arrived containing complete tracks our Bn Maint WO, the BN XO, and CO went nuts as this pretty much zeroed out the BN’s maintenance budget for the entire year! But, WOs being WOs, the maintenance officer was able to convince the local Ordnance company to take all of the tracks back and refund / credit our account. True story!
Within about a year we transitioned to a new TO&E and formed a Combat Support Co, to which the scout (and 4.2 mortars and AT) platoons were assigned. I was glad to see them go!
The Combat Support Company was my second assignment in 1/50th Inf (Mech), 2d AD. We had the consolidated sections you described (4.2 mortar M106, M151A1C 106mm AT and scout platoons. I was loaned to the HHC Maint Section where I had hands-on time with the M114s, both .50 and 20mm models. They were hot rods when they didn’t have hydraulic leaks, which led to a lot of dead-line time. My time there was 73-78, Ft Hood, a REFORGER and six month rotation to FRG during that time.
I commanded the company 2/6 for armor at con Barricks in 1970. I spent a lot of time attacking around area M I enjoyed Schweinfurt a great deal and have been back a couple of times over the years to include standing down D troop, 1/4 Cav after the sand box was over. I’d go back in a heartbeat.
Sorry B Co 2/64
In Vietnam, they used this big 50 caliber ammo can on tanks. I think it held three times the ammo that the normal can held, but might have been four times. ACAV’s often had the plate the smaller can sat on redone to hold the big cans. That big plate was one of the first things taken off a CBL’d M48 in the bone yard. Things I’d thought they’d taken like road wheels and stuff were never touched.
Up north it was kind of a standard thing to cover the entire floor with ammo cans ( 5.56, 7.62, and 50 Cal) plus some other thing left crated up. CAV units didn’t use a lot of M72’s as they had the real deal to bust a bunker. But infantry platoons out with them always had a few.
I really enjoyed reading this thread and hope you eventually finish your M114!
While conducting research, I found three M114 technical manuals that may be of interest: SteelSoldiers.com (Scroll to the bottom of the page to find the linked manuals.)
The first manual is truncated at page 34 but contains some useful information.
The second manual contains lots of general M114 information including a section on internal stowage. This manual also contains sections on the M2 and M60 machine guns.
The third manual is mostly a parts list for the cupola. Towards the end, it includes many detailed diagrams of cupola mechanisms.