Modelling armour in Ukraine crisis

It is widely known that the Leopard sacrifices survivability for manouvreability.

Not a fan of the concept myself.

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The Turks deployed them built up and semi-urban environments with no infantry support and without clearing possible firing positions. There are a load of videos showing IS militants popping them from behind with current heavy AT guided missiles. No MBT, modern or otherwise is going to survive that.

When they are used properly - i.e.: maneuvering warfare, combined ops, fully supported and with everyone knowing what they are doing, the Leo 2 is still a superlative MBT. The Turks were using them as unsupported mobile fire support pillboxes in Syria.

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Russian T-80U with John Deere stackable counterweights as an improvised armour :roll_eyes:

H.P.

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This isn’t a particularly ‘fluid’ battlefield either though is it?

The disasterous Russisct tactics of the early war rendered tanks almost superflous in the eyes of both sides. I see lots of pictures of tanks here, but wonder just how much they’re actually being used for the purpose they were designed.

I’m thinking artillery is king in this show.

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HIMARS is king. Arty is the Queen, Tanks are the fist and Javelin’s are the sword.

HIMARS is artillery and all artillery is the “King of Battle”!! Infantry is the Queen of Battle.

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I am thinking Rockets VS artillery shells

Some / Many of the Saudi M1A2 were also already destroyed by Yemen defenders. No tank is 100% safe

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No doubt that they used it wrong but the problem is that the hull ammo is not compartmentalized. The ammo in the turret is behind a door so why not the hull?

This is funny: it reads “Landschaftni disainer” which reads exactly like in German Landschaftsdesigner (landscape designer) :grin: :+1:

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The RFM kit doesnt show it, but its separated You cant even reach it during combat. You have only the Bereitschaftsmunition in the turret, and thats also separated. The front hull of the Leo2 is depending on source 60cm to 1 meter thick…oh and sloped…

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Agreed, none 100% safe - I definitely understand that aspect and AFV’s have to use proper tactics.

FWIW - in the two Leo II pictures I posted it appeared the Leo II’s blew up just like a hard hit T-72 or T90 would have. The Leo II hull ammo storage or at least the Leo 2A4 hull left front/side ammo storage looks like a major vulnerability. Right or wrong, I expected the Leo II to fair a bit better when hit.

Looks like the Leo II needs ERA on front arc & sides etc.

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However the true landscape designer is the engineer.

Olivier

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agreed but artillery does the job more faster :grin:

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and definitely more spectacular

Artillery Shell Impacts In Slow Motion GIF | Gfycat

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But Engineers can plant flowers as they go…

giphy

or…

IMG_0216

:grin:

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The discussion about artillery reminded me of this picture I saw recently.

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Landscape design Special forces style -
More explosives than God
No adult supervision
Too much time on our hands






We blew a hole in the earth so large that the Bulldozer guy at Fort Carson refused to fill it back in.

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Looks like a grand old time. :laughing: