Panther II Panther F question

The drawings for an 88mm main gun turret, as I recall, placed the trunnions well forward. Still, it was impractical as the turret lacked space for easily loading main rounds.

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If the Germans really wanted to put an 88 on a Panther, they could do it. The result would be a Panther [New Letter Here], not a Panther F with an 88. The drawings we have demonstrate that engineers considered the problem but had not yet solved it. It was a work in progress. If those engineers had more time and money, they would have figured it out. The resulting gun and turret would be something new. We do not know what it would look like because this is all well into alternate history territory.

However, we can look the many tanks with big guns crammed into small turrets and make some predictions. The turret will have a pushed out front face. The hull will have the biggest turret ring it can accommodate. The back of the turret will be designed to counter balance the gun. The gun will be redesigned, versus the anti-aircraft version, to save space.

Near the end of World War II and after, a number of major nations experimented with big gun tanks using two part ammunition. It can be done. Some of those tanks have really cramped turrets, pitiful ammunition storage, and horrible rates of fire, but they work. (Sort of.) We know it is doable because it was done. It was done by the same guys who designed stuff during the war.

So…make some stuff up! Haha!

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I did that Dragon kit years ago, it’s a superb kit, it turns into a great build.

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I am not sure that there is that great an advantage over an 88 being installed in a Panther; the 75 was a superb gun, and ballistically better than the Tiger I’s 88 (I’m not sure about the 88 on the Tiger II admittedly). The Panther’s Kwk 42 L/70 was more than capable of seeing off most of the opposition, though I concur that weight of shell may well be a factor in reducing the Soviet heavies.

So, assuming that we’re talking about the Kwk 43 – the same weapon of the Tiger II - to my layman’s mind there’s no way on earth that could ever be installed in the Panther’s Schmalturm. Apart from the massive breech, the Loader has to manipulate an extremely large fixed round into said breech, let alone dispose of the empties. Whilst not all the ammo will be stored in the turret (if any on the Schmalturm), he will need space for the dexterity required; he’s also sharing the space with the Gunner and Commander.

So, if not the Schmalturm, then even the original Panther turret would be pushed to accept an 88; in fact thinking about it, the Panther designers would surely have installed an 88 if they could have? So any new (larger) turret would still be up against the weight/mass/power combo which would prevent such an installation. So, if you really want a tank that carries an 88, with sloped armour etc, then you might as well have a Tiger II! I admit there’s a mobility penalty there.

I found this video of a Challenger 1 in action; there’s a brief glimpse of the Loader/Operator doing his stuff (with 2-part ammo) but he needs some space!

Challenger 1 MBT

So, and the idea of my comments are not to sabotage any What-If initiatives, but injecting a modicum of plausibility means, I think, that an 88 in a Panther – of any sort – is a no-no.

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Take the Tiger 2 turret and gun. Reangle the sides of the panther hull so you can widen the turret ring. Install the Tiger 2 turret,
Problems with the design. Weight, needing new torsion bars. Engine power needs to be increased. More room for fuel and ammo.

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That’s why they produced the JagPanther.
And they made it look good too :wink:

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