For those of you in Southern (or Central) Colorado, hell even New Mexico:
The Southern Chapter of the Special Forces Motorcylce Club is hosting another 3 gun match on October 7.in Cactus Flats (minutes from Florence and Penrose) starting at 9:00 am. I will be the range safety there as well as competing. We’re raffling off a CZ Scorpion along with 500 rounds of ammo for it,
100% of our proceeds benefit veterans. I promise a good time will be had by all. Apache26 came to one of our events earlier this year, and he sure appeared to be having fun.
Contact me if you need more details.
many years ago we had a strong argument at work about reloading. One group was really hung up on the Dillon stuff and the other stuck on sing stage presses. After getting tired of listening to both sides I said to just load up ten .223 rounds, and we’d check them out to see who was loading the best. I just grabbed ten empty cases, and ran them thru a regular die (a Forster die set to be exact). Others were using Lee, RCBS, and Hornaday presses. The progressive guys were using all sorts of stuff as well. Well they all seemed to show up at the sametime, and I made a gauge. The Dillon stuff ran out all over the place, and seemed average about .009" run out. The worst was around .011"! The Redding was the best progressive with about ,005/.006" of run out. A guy named Tony used both styles of presses, and his were right in line with the Dillons. His single stage rounds were in the .003"/.004" run out numbers. I was the last guy we checked, and my worst rounds were in the .0017" of run out. The better ones were in the one thousandth area with a couple in the .0005" area. The Redding was best because it had a working reactionary bar on the back side of the plate, but needed to be adjusted slightly (he didn’t know what it was for). Then they got to arguing about the dies being used. (good point) So I loaded up another ten rounds to really set them in orbit, I loaded the with my arbor press and a set of Wilson dies for a .244" neck diameter. Same bullets and the worst round was about .00085". Most were in the .00045" area. Next time around they said it was the gauge I built in about a half hour. I bring my Nikko gauge, and the results were the same. I gave Tony the 20 rounds to see how they shot. They shot one single ragged hole. End of that argument.
I asked those guys how they checked their loads before shooting, and drew a blank! I told them I used a $70 Lyman with a couple Sinclair add on’s. Yet If I was serious, I would use another measure. It was good for a tenth of a grain, but the Lyman was just about as good for one third of the money. I actually checked every charge twice on two different scales. (a force of habit I got from stick powder). I primed with a K&M hand tool, and see no need for anything better (more expensive). I’m really into head space, and have a couple tools for checking it that I built. Tony’s rifle barrel was chambered with a reamer that I used for one of my .223’s, so I knew up front he was good to go. Plus I wanted to see just how good that rifle of his would shoot. Made my Remington look like junk.
gary
I like reloading, but I’m not into “precision” shooting as much as Gary. I’ve nothing against it - I just don’t see a situation where I’ll ever need to hit any past 100m again.
When I got my first Henry for Father’s day - the Big Boy in .357 Magnum, I knew it wouldn’t be my only Henry.
My wife got me another one for my birthday, this time in .44 Magnum. Only this time in stainless instead of brass. While I had put the brass Skinner sight on the .357, I thought I’d go with something different on the .44, so I got the 1895 scope for it in stainless. it matches quite nicely.
But how does it shoot?
Well, after fruitlessly trying to get a good group at 100 yards with the stock buckhorn sight, which everyone on the planet pretty much agrees sucks big time, I shot a group with the new scope.
I only had five rounds left of the Precision One ammo (I have not yet begun reloading .44 Mag because large Magnum primers are hard to procure locally) so I had to make every round count.
The cold bore shot. But I’ve already proven that with my AR. Don’t clean your gun every time and you’ll be fine.
There are no 1 MOA guns.
Here are the results at 100 yards. The first two shots at the lower left of the coffee filter touch. So much for the cold bore theory. The third was a called flyer. I was using an assault pack as a rest and felt the gun moved just as the sear broke.
I went down to observe my target, discounted the flyer and made adjustments according to the instructions that came with the scope.
The final two shots ended up close enough to center for me to call it good.
I may go back today and shoot some even hotter ammo. But truthfully I bought the nickle plated brass rounds to go in the buttstock cuff (and eventually sling) that I’m making myself.
Call it posuerish if you will but I think they look great with the Henry and the scope.
So, at least for that one day, the gun is a sub MOA gun. I’ve always thought there are sub MOA guns, just not many sub MOA shooters. And I’m not even that good…
I need some help and I’m hoping that the fine people of this page will be able to help. I want to put together a work bench to work on and repair my own firearms and I need a comprehensive list of all of the things that I will need to set this up.
So as a follow up to the post two posts up - I went back to the range and fired a couple of those higher velocity 44 mag rounds. I showed him the picture. As expected with a much higher muzzle velocity, the rounds climbed higher at 100 yards.
It’s important to know that I did not clean the barrel whatsoever since the last time I fired the gun. I offer this as further proof that the concept of the Cold War shot is highly overrated. These two rounds landed almost exactly where I expected them to, albeit slightly to the left. But there was a slight bit of a cross wind today. The rounds are almost touching, which shows me that the difference between a cold bore shot and a shot in a warmed up barrel is negligible. It also shows me once again there is such thing as a sub MOA rifle. I mean, think about it. This is a lever action rifle shooting pistol ammunition of all things. Can you imagine if Gary applied all of his voodoo magic on the rounds? There’d probably be one hole in the target.
Or even better, fired from a bench rest, instead of an assault pack filled with my daughter’s stuffed animals.
I had a friend (no longer a friend) who was into the bowling pin shooting with a couple 45’s. He had feed issues as well, and ended up finding a “roll sizer” for his brass. He loaded for forty caliber and 9mm as well. That took care of his feeding issues 100%. Works only with rimless cartridges, and there is a learning curve. I shoot a lot of wheel guns so I had little need for one, and even then had no idea where to get one. With revolvers, most of us use the sizer die with the carbide ring built in it. Problem with it is that it only sizes about three quarters of the case, and even then usually way under the chamber size, I reworked several sets of steel dies (the ones nobody wants) to fit the chambers (about .003" smaller). Brass lasted longer and the revolvers shot better.
gary
Never had a lever action in 44 mag! I do own a couple .444 Marlins, so I know a little about the 44 caliber in a rifle. The bullets you use mean a lot to the grouping. Then there is the crimp. I have several sets of 44 mag dies, but almost always go back to the Lyman die. Not that they are so much better, but I like the way they crimp. Another issue you maybe having is that you’re using a die with the carbide ring in it. Watch for the solid steel die sets (you see them at gun shows a lot.)
Try the Hornaday 265 grain sold tipped bullet of H110 or some similar (296??) The H110 maybe a little too fast of a burn rate, and maybe something slightly slower would be better. Bad thing about having to crimp the bell of the case is that you’re limited to where you seat the bullet.
Believe it or not; primers can make a world of difference. I pretty use use nothing but Federals with a few exceptions. I can usually shoot five shot groups under an inch and a half with the .444 @ 100 yards, and my 44 mags will shoot about 1.62" groups at fifty yards (my T/C’s will shoot about 1.25"). I know they will shoot better, but just lazy I guess. My brother has a .444 that shoots 1.25" groups at 100 yards. His is just tighter than mine.
By they way my best groups are in the .19" range with a Savage in 22-250. Factory barrels at that. I do have a 6mm/250AI (similar to the 22-250 case necked up to 6mm and improved) that will shoot .250" groups all day long. My Remington .223 NM is shooting right around .40" groups with a struggle. It’s getting a new barrel with the Savage nut in .222 AI or a redesigned .223 case.
gary
Once again, referring to a post a few posts above this one - I bought a rifle rest - not the best but it was the only one they had. I figured I’d make it work. Better than shooting off an assualt pack filled stuff animals for sure.
The group is a little higher than the grouping of two from last time. I attribute that to a slightly different cheek to stock weld given that I have an actual rest now. Slight differences in viewing angle can cause parallax. Because I had a consistent position the last time, I had a very good group. Now I may be using a slightly different position, but again - exactly the same for all three shots. Again, this is at 100 yards.
Once again, I did not rod the barrel or clean it in any way since the last session. The three shot grouping proves (to me) once again - that there was no “cold bore” shot. They all went where aimed. the grouping also proves to me that yes, Virginia - there really is a sub MOA rifle. In this case a nineteenth century style lever action. I think I might be able to tighten it up even more by shooting at a white paster next time instead of attempting to center the crosshairs on a bigass coffee filter.
Based on my very limited shooting with a .22 pistol I would say: Definitely
It was a lot easier for me to focus on a small dot instead of that large black circle.
Depending on how close it is when discovered.
I use to carry a Ruger Super Blackhawk with a cut down barrel to 4 5/8th inch for the hog up close and personal experience.
So…I have a Glock 47. Bought a Glock performance trigger for it. I carelessly watched some youtube video’s about it prior to purchase cuz no LGS’s around here have experience with anything I ask them. I watched this video and had to stop.
As I am prior military, he began to speak in tongues when he said he was unhappy because he needed to PM the pistol after a 1000 rds. He said he just trains with the weapon for thousands of rounds and does not clean the weapon. He appears to be unhappy if any PM is needed on a weapon.
I guess that is a testament to the Glock he uses.
Maybe I am uninformed. Maybe my training was on poorly designed and built weapons. But I was always of the school that a clean weapon would work when you needed it and a dirty weapon may not be as reliable. Your thoughts. Has the world moved on or did he miss the bus.
Somewhere in this thread I posted that I rarely give my guns a thorough cleaning.
On semi-automatic pistols I clean around the chamber, the rear of the slide, the slide rails. I rarely run a brush through the barrel. If accuracy were to start to become an issue I’d be more meticulous, but it hasn’t.
Revolver - I cleaned the barrel regularly when i shot lead bullets, shooting copper plated bullets I don’t clean it nearly as much. The chambers might get a swabbing if the cases start to stick a little.
My AR and my Henrys - very little cleaning, except for the bolt area. My Henrys shoot rimmed pistol cases - I’m meticulous about the bolt face, extractor, etc. but let’s face it, these things are rugged, relaible, and as my photos have shown, hyperaccurate. (another reason to load your own, by the way)
I absolutely belive it’s possible to overclean a rifle. A little bit of residue settles in to even out irregularities, and the barrel (pardon the pun) finds its groove. Cleaning after every session is what causes those “cold bore” shots to go off target. As I’ve shown, I do not have issues with cold bore shots at all.
And oil left in the barrel, even the slightest bit, is NOT good. It will throw your performance way off. My philosophy is if my guns were shooting good at the end of the session, a light cleaning, if at all, will have them shooting just as well the next day,
