Stugs in Normandy

Maybe consider a little bit less obscure subject of your diorama? :wink:
This seems like a bit of a dusty corner of history, if I may say. :desert:

Good point. I really wanted to cover it though. It was going to be included in my on going series about Epsom, mainly because this episode was a dramatic showing of the power of the Commonwealth artillery. Almost a thousand rounds were expended to stop this small attack and all that steel fell in a box about 500 by 500 meters!
J

So…diorama wise…a brick of Swiss cheese with Sturmgeschütz Flambe’ on top. :man_cook:

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Zetterling’s Normandy 1944 is a great book for detailing the wide scope of German units and their varying effectiveness.

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I have Jean-Claude Perrigault’s “21 Panzer Divison” by Editions Heimdal.

On June 1, 1944, the 21PD no StuG are listed. One subunit, Sturmgeschütz-Abt 200 had the following:
17 x Geschützwagen H39 with Pak 40
24 x Geschützwagen H39 with 10.5cm leFH16

That’s it. No StuG III at all.

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Ok cool,thanks,
J

Good info. Thanks buddy!
J

Here we have movie footage from the Imperial War Museum on Operation Epsom;

https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/848

Note the excerpt from the caption;

" 6-pounder gun detachments from 59th Anti-Tank Regiment RA pass through the Company’s positions accompanied by a 4th Somerset Light Infantry ambulance truck and a Universal Carrier from the 1st Worcesters’ support company. Two wrecked Mark IV ‘specials’ and a Sturmgeschütz III from the 21st Panzer Division are found nearby."

At 4:08, you have your Sturmgeschütz.

Also note the town of Bas du Mouen mentioned in the text is only a few km due south of Marcelet, very near where the Stugs should be according to the map I posted.

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Hmmm…not much of it is visible, and certainly not for very long. If it’s not identifiable by division symbols I would be skeptical. Not saying it’s not, just that it’s debatable. Captions have been known to be wrong!
:smiley:
:canada:

The Stugs in question were not integral to the 21st PD, which is why they are not showing up on the reported rosters from other authors. They were merely an attached unit and therefore unlikely to be marked with the 21st’s divisional symbols. By June 22, 5 days before this movie was shot, the Pz.Kp. (fkl) 315 was officially dissolved and reformed into the 2nd Kompanie of the newly-recreated Panzer Abteilung (fkl) 302, further complicating identification issues. The use of divisional markings had fallen off in general by this stage of the war, making this a rather moot point. Granted, we don’t see much more than a Panzer III road wheel and some jumbled steel in the movie, but what other vehicle would this be? What other unit would be in this area using Stugs?

Is Thomas Jentz wrong too?

Edit; Freeze the movie at 4:05 and you can clearly see the cupola and glimpses of the superstructure, proving that this is indeed a Sturmgeschutz III. The movie shows the vehicle type in question, in the area in question, at the date in question, why is the unit identity important? It likely wouldn’t be shown on your model to begin with.

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The funkleng StuGs would probably have an extra antenna or 2?

Unfortunately, the area where the extra radio-guidance antenna is mounted, on the left-forward corner of the roof, is obscured by bushes. The antenna would most likely not be mounted unless the vehicle was actively using the B IV at the time, this would prevent accidentally damaging the antenna. Photos in German Remote-Control Tank Units 1943-45 confirm this point.

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Good find! This indeed could be no other unit other than 21Pz. The only other units near there were the Hj and the LAH and at this date the LAH armor were not committed but rather in reserve on en route. The HJ had zero StrurmG. so it has to be 21Pz. Nice info man,thanks a lot!
J

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Glad I could help. I enjoy trying to solve puzzles like this, one is not always successful in these endeavors, so it’s rewarding when the fragments of information come together. I’m disappointed my library didn’t come through for me and I had to recourse to dredging the internet for information. I was fortunate to stumble upon the movie clip, an unexpected find. After watching it and checking the locations, timing and units involved, I knew that the 5 seconds of a Sturmgeschütz wreck was the ticket.

Looking forward to seeing your diorama. If I recall correctly, Naval gunfire was included in this Metal Hailstorm. What does a 16" HE shell crater look like in 1/35th scale? Something like Cell-u-clay, meet shotgun? Swiss cheese indeed.

Well, if you are interested in what I am building you can visit the AFV Modeller Magazine website and search for edition number 119. It has my “Epsom in Scale” article that covers my first 4 Episodes. You can download just my Article for One Pound. The next 2 Episodes are coming I believe in issue 121. And I am working on editing the 7th one now. The Stug would be in the 8th one if they grace me with continuing this thing. I also have a thread on the Dio forum here on this venue. “Epsom details” I think it’s called?
Thanks again for the outstanding help Sir!
J

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this one: Operation "Epsom" details

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Personally; unless anything less than 100% accuracy makes your head explode; I think there comes a point where you have to say “I’ll just go with this.” If information turns up at a later date that disagrees with what you’ve done, then maybe you can change it. For me though, I just remind myself that this is my hobby; it7s what I do to DE-stress, not increase it.

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good point!
J

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