Maybe the M3/M5 did “better” at recon without the turret because their crews were a lot less likely to engage the enemy without a main gun?
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Removing the turrets on M3/M5 light tanks was not a standard US armored unit modification. That was something done by UK & Commonwealth forces.
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My understanding is that the 37mm was of declining effectiveness and that removing the turret reduced the height thereby improving its likelihood of not being seen while lightening the vehicle, making it more agile with greater range. The vehicle usually gained a .50 Cal which was sufficient for its needs.
Regards,
M
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True, but the US Army did field the T8E1 Reconnaissance Vehicle (built from the outset without a turret) in limited numbers.
Regards,
M
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If memory serves me correct, the trials for the T-26 90mm turret on the M4 hulls took place in January of 1944, the trials concluded that the turret was usable. Although we should note that they tried this on a narrow track M4 which would’ve pushed the less powerful radial engine to it’s limits while making the weight about 39 tons instead of the usual 32 tons. This configuration would’ve made more sense to test on the more powerful (M4A3) Ford GAA powered E8 chassis.
The biggest reason we didn’t see this tank towards the end of the ETO was because they thought they could get the T-26 tank to Europe sooner than they did. The war ended before they could get sizable numbers of T-26 tanks to Europe. Had they pushed ahead with the T-26 turreted Shermans we would’ve probably seen them in the ETO by January of 1945…
An “Easy Eight” with a T-26 turret? At last! An Allied nonesuch to take on the Paper Panzers!
Cheers,
M
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I’ve never got into the ‘what if’ subjects, but if I were I’d build a sherman jumbo (extra armor and bigger final drive cover) with the wide E8 tracks and the T-26 turret. Such a tank would’ve weighed in at about 44 tons…
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Interesting. But being a T series nomenclature means it was never standardized into an M series vehicle and adopted for use by the Army. The T26E3 design became standardized as the M26 as an example. The M5’s successor would be the far superior M24. The wheeled M8 served as the primary recon vehicle in US Army armored and cavalry units from 1944 to the end of the war.
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Interesting, the medium M4 sherman was the T-6 or T6 (not sure) during it’s testing prototype phase, maybe the T stood for test version?[quote=“Stikpusher, post:28, topic:23514, full:true”]
Interesting. But being a T series nomenclature means it was never standardized into an M series vehicle and adopted for use by the Army. The T26E3 design became standardized as the M26 as an example. The M5’s successor would be the far superior M24. The wheeled M8 served as the primary recon vehicle in US Army armored and cavalry units from 1944 to the end of the war.
[/quote]
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Thats what always worries me about building a Sherman … all the various marks and variants and it seems a lot of the time from what I have read in posts and threads here is even the kit ones have issues that need fixing is that case ? is there a Sherman that can be built out the box without changing tracks/turret parts etc etc ?
In one sense, yes. Find a photo of a particular Sherman that you want to model, then look for a kit that best suits it. With such a wide variety of Sherman kits available today, it can be done. Conversely, there are also some Shermans in photos that if you want to model them, you’ll have to do some mods, swapping of tracks, or other changes.
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Yes, the T series pre production designation for the Sherman was T6, with no dash. US Army vehicle nomenclature does not use dashes. I believe that the “T” stands for type, but I am not certain. Standardized US Army Ordnance nomenclatures can be a bit confusing as the M number can be used on several unrelated items: Helmet, M1; Rifle, M1; Carbine, M1; Anti Aircraft Gun 90mm M1…
Sometimes the T series number rolls over directly into the M series standardized nomenclature, sometimes it doesn’t for a particular item. The T1 series heavy tanks were standardized into the M6 tank. I guess after fielding the M3 Half Track, M3 Light Tank, and M3 Medium Tank around the same time, somebody decided to start going in sequence with tanks regardless of weight class.
So no list huh?
You can build accurate shermans OOTB, it just depends on what you want. Different campaigns featured different variants as the units involved in these campaigns usually received tanks from the same factory batches and then a different unit received a different batch etc…
For example:
The M4A1 DV was at El Alamein with brit units, both Tasca/Asuka and DML made nice kit of this version right OOTB…
Those early shermans faced off against german panzer iii and panzer iv and some italian medium tanks…that’s one example, the best way to go about it if you don’t want to get as specific as one particular sherman from a picture is to just pick a campaign then come on here and ask folks which sherman kits would be closest OOTB to building one of those tanks, like the example I gave above from the NA campaignn…
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I listed the Sherman variants used in my post earlier in this thread.
what! Nobody remembered the M4a3 with the rocket launcher atop the turret! Also, did the U.S. Army use the M4a2 in Europe? I know the Brits and some others did.
gary
No, the US Army didn’t use the M4A2 for logistical reasons…the rest of their tanks were gasoline powered and they didn’t want to complicate things with diesel powered tanks…the brits and all the commonwealth, the free french, the US Marines, and the Russians used the M4A2 which was their preferred type due to it’s low end torque characteristics which were ideal for Russian mud and snow…the Russians got a lot of M4A2 of all types, I think they received like 7 thousand shermans in total but I’ll have to double check those numbers…
The M4A2 might’ve served in more campaigns than any other sherman variant, africa, PTO with the marines, MTO, ETO, Burma (?), and on the eastern front with Russian tankers…the Russians took that tank all the way to china and even fought it against japan in china after germany was defeated…
No other tank in WW2 served in more places around the world than the Sherman tank…
The turret mounted rocket launchers were mounted on multiple Sherman types, not just the A3. There were two types fielded, the “Calliope” and the “Whiz Bang”.
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I always was told only the M4a3. Also looks to me like the turret was slightly cast different on the sides to mount the trunions
gary
