Best visual aid to show before posting military doctrine.
All of the points are valid. But here is the thing. Who said hold the trigger and blast thru 150 rounds each time engagement? Next its one of the easiest barrel replacement units on the field. Next it can be used as a one man weapon. So the negatives are how it eats thru ammo? trigger control and target hitting. overheating? Trigger control and mastering your weapon. Want to hit and run and be sneaky? go MK98. Want to pound your foe into the ground and make them wet there pants? MG42. which do you think the other side would rather run in force against?
Correct me if I have misundersttod something in the procedings.
A machine gun is an area suppression weapon, it’s not really a sniper wepaon although one sniper used an M2 .50 cal in Vietnam for this purpose.
They all have limitations on the rate of fire, the cyclic rate of fire is less important than the sustained rate of fire. Who cares if some machine gun can cycle through 5000 rounds per if the barrel overheats after 200 or the magazine only holds 150.
The fear of the MG 42 in WW II was possibly exaggerated, I wasn’t there so I can’t really say.
Germany had them but they didn’t win the war.
MG 3
“The MG3 fires the 7.62x51mm NATO round from 50 round DM1 continuous belts or M13 or DM6 linked belts, mostly of 120 round length. The cyclic rate of fire is about 1.200 rpm. This results in a high ammunition consumption and rapid overheating. The barrel should be changed every 150 rounds fired in rapid succession.”
“The MG3 remains in use today, but in the infantry role it has often been replaced by light machine guns.” https://weaponsystems.net/system/1043-Rheinmetall+MG3
LMG’s hmmm,
or maybe each infantry soldier carrying an AK-74 (or other similar automatic rifle)
The AK-74, 30 round magazines, has a practical fire rate of 100 rds/min so two soldiers with an AK-74 each delivers more rounds per minute than an MG 3. The MG 3 requires two soldiers for efficient usage.
Maybe a silly example but I think there a more valid options than the MG 3, it’s not bad but it is not alone, there are competitors. Some countries want to have their own weapons manufacture in case they can’t get deliveries from another country so they will not consider machine gun X produced in country Y.
Have seen/read sources say stoppage & charge gun was exactly why it was done to conservative ammo or teach new MG42 operators to use “use short one second bursts.” The MG operater was critical to a WW2 era German squad, very demanding in responsibility and what was required.
Repeating what was read, zero experience firing MG42’s or MG3’s.
I do believe the MG3 makes a couple nice improvements over the MG42.
John, strikes me as the sort of guy you want with the SAW in a modern infantry squad. Very much similar seems to me to the “right guy” to get max effectiveness out out of a MG3/MG42/M60 whatever.
@Uncle-Heavy every point valid. So many tools in the tool box to play with. My point was just that the MG42 completely changed the battlefield with how MG’s were used. And has since, being that it is used as a mobile platform were before two or more men were used for MG’s.
Simply stated. It changed doctrine at that time on how MG’s were used. Game changer by the Germans when it dropped on the planet.
I was under the impression that it was the MG 34 that revolutionized doctrine and tactics in the German army. The MG 42 was refined for mass production compared to the more complex MG 34 and did not so much alter the previously existing MG 34 usage doctrine, as replaced the weapon itself due to its easier production.
@Uncle-Heavy I post this not to prove ANY point in my statements, but as a educational fun read from what appears to be men who have used said weapons and the interesting stories they have from using them.
I have learned that new is not always better. When you make a run of 10,000 items and the order is completed, the eventual reorder is often for a newer or different item for the same task. That is not always better. A silly example are pencil sharpeners or staplers. “In the day” an old classroom pencil sharpener lasted forever. The new ones of the same style are good for 6 months. The Maxim style machine guns I make fun of work really well. Due to the water cooled barrel, they have a really long sustained rate of fire. Great for a place that might be in an overrun situation. However it is a poor choice for a foot patrol. The MG 42 is as good of a design today as it was back then. 80 years does not make for a bad design. How long did the 30 caliber and the M2 remain in service? They are good weapons and work just as well today. Machine guns, rifles and pistols keep their relevancy for a long time. There are few electronic upgrades and improved power plants like tanks and jets go through. An M1 Garand is still an OK weapon in trench warfare where you are plinking at one another, where you do not need a high capacity magazine
I believe General purpose refers to its flexibility in use, in that it can be adapted flexibly to various tactical roles and be configured for mounting to different stabilizing platforms from bipods and tripods to vehicles, aircraft, boats and fortifications, usually as an infantry support weapon or squad automatic weapon deployed in the area supression role.
Ian McCollum had a video on his “Forgotten Weapons” YouTube channel showcasing an MG3 at Morphy’s Auction House, tearing it down and contrasting its design against the MG42 it was developed from. He mentioned that it was produced with bolt mechanisms of different weights for sale to different countries, with the weight of the bolt mechanism being what controlled the cyclic rate, so a country could buy MG3s that had cyclic rates down to, IIRC, about 900 rounds per minute.
would you kindly like to find that thought of doctrine and prove your side of the statement before I start dropping German Military doctrine links like glitter.
Wow. I seem to recall accuracy kinda being a thing in the US Army as well. When I used to compete (and win) they placed a high premium on accuracy. We used this target:
They added high value targets that were worth more, and no shoot targets that you incurred a substantial penalty for hitting. Naturally the two were generally adjacent to one another.
The 240B can be used in the assault, support, or security role in a dismounted raid. Mounted or on its own bipod it is quite effective against point targets, vehicles, building. Mounted on a pedestal it even has limited AA capability. That’s about as general purpose as it gets.
During competition I was quite adept at the two round burst. Teams would be warned after the first single shot, and disqualified after the second.
The Army FM even mentions breath control while shooting a machine gun - hardly necessary if accuracy doesn’t count. And then there’s the T & E mechanism. I wonder what that was for?
As I detailed in a post further up, the FN MAG was inspired by some details but their internal functioning is different.
MG 42: the force from the cartridge bushes the bolt backwards which compresses a spring which then catapults the bolt forwards to fire a new cartridge. The cyclic rate of fire can be adjusted by replacing the bolt with a lighter or heavier bolt.
FN MAG: some of the powder gases that push the bullet out of the barrel escape into a gas valve, the leaked gas pushes a long rod backwards, the rod pushes the bolt backwards, a spring pushes the bolt forward again which loads and fires a new cartridge. The cyclic rate of fire is adjusted with the gas valve without any need to replace the bolt.
Being inspired by details and adapting some solutions to a different mechanism is not a copy.
A copy is where you can, in principle, transplant one or many parts from the original to the copy,
Academy copied Tamiyas 1/35 Centurion (but not with the same quality)
If someone says/writes ‘copy’ again I will be seriously disappointed in that persons ability to understand written text.
Yeah, I shot competitions with the M60. Our team took 3rd place in the whole 5th ID. I was going to mention the tripod w/ T &E accuracy. Using that method, the gun was extremely stable & accurate, and it was quite easy to get a burst on that target with all the holes from rounds touching. From the bipod you had an area suppression weapon. From the tripod, it was pretty damn impressive what could be done.
“Inspired by” is not the same semantic meaning as copy.
Copy that ?
First belt fed machine gun:
The dear old Maxim was also belt fed:
I presume that neither of these was the original that the MG 42 was copied from
so the “belt fed” solution goes out the window.
Is the MG 34 the original that the MG 42 was copied from?
Should we go back to the guns that the MG 34 was developed from.
Refinements are made in increments. A copy is not a refinement.
Machine guns have been improved since the mid 1800’s, the first Gatling was
invented/designed in 1861.
Would you argue that all guns operating on the Gatling principle are copies
of the very first Gatling gun?
The internal combustion engine has been developed in steps for more than
a century. Which old car is the true original that all other cars are copies of?
The AR 15’s one is not a true copy of the other, some parts are different.
Is a Mercedes Benz 190D from 1965 a copy of the Mercedes Benz 190?
They are mostly the same but one of them has a diesel engine and the other a petrol engine.
The petrol engine can be further refined by having fuel injection instead of carburetors.
Is the turbo a copy of the compressor? Both force extra air into the engine.
All guns using a centerfire cartridge are copies of the very first one, some details have changed but the principle is a copy. Are all revolvers a copy of the first revolver? Some of the very first ones didn’t use cartridges. The desgin principle of a firearm is that ignited powder pushes a slug out of a barrel.
Would that make the MG 42 a copy of the first musket? They both push slugs out of a barrel using gas produced by burning gunpowder. Some vital design solutions are different but the MG 42 is an a gradual refinement of the original idea.
No worries!
It’s sleepy time in my part of the world, 10 past midnight,
so you have at least 18 hours to think about it,
maybe even get inspired.
A good design is usually a refinement of an earlier good design,
copying is for those who can’t improve on the original.
there is a lot for me there to unpack. You might have to give me a bit to reply to this. 
