Searching for Soviet 2P19 Scud TEL R-17 Missile Hookup Info

So, I’m researching for a new project and am trying to sort out the details about how the R-17 missile is hooked up for launch when on the 2P19 Scud TEL.

I’ve pretty much figured out the hook ups for the same missile on the MAZ based TEL, but the wheeled TEL has a different design for the cabling and high-pressure hose hookups on the vehicle, itself.

I’ve exhausted all my research avenues, though, for the vehicle hookups on the tracked TEL. The missiles are essentially the same, but the vehicle end attachments for each of the various cables and hoses are totally different for the tracked TEL vs the wheeled TEL.

I simply cannot find any clear photos of the missiles ready for launch on the tracked TEL that show where the cables and hoses are attached to it (much less clear enough to trace the hoses and cables from the missile to their on-vehicle attachments).

Does anyone know if there’s a DVD-pdf copy of the technical manual available from someone? What about photos? Does anyone have any clear photos of these details?

I’ve gone for far as to take a bunch of screen grabs from the 2 or 3 YouTube vids of these being prepared for launch in training, but, alas, none of those are clear or detailed enough.

Here’s hoping that someone here in the KitMaker community can point to, offer up, or suggest some reference that I haven’t yet found.

Cheers!

Don’t know how accurate it is, but Tony Zadro just did one over at Track0Links that looks to be wired up nicely.

https://www.track-link.com/gallery/12547

The second issue for today is on Soviet weapons, about which it is very difficult to find information in Russian. Are you going to remake them there?
Not entirely on topic, but the information on this page may be useful. Here are some photos of the launcher without the rocket.
And here are some diagrams in Polish or Czech.

Do you want another album of diagrams for the rocket itself?

Thanks, Gino. I’ve checked out Tony’s build. It’s a very attractive piece of work, as one might expect from an AMPS Master.

Unfortunately, it looks like Tony ran into the same problem that I’m having with trying to diagram out the connections for the electrical cables and high-pressure hoses on the rear of the 2P19 TEL. Tony solved the issue by routing the cables and hoses using the information for the MAZ based TEL, the 9P117.

However, the two different launcher vehicles (tracked and wheeled) used different routing for these cables and hoses. (To make matters even more complicated, there were two different tracked TELs, the 2P19 and the 8T137 / 2U218 - the Trumpeter kit is the 2P19…). The tracked TELs appear to have run most of the cables and hoses from the left rear side of the vehicle whereas the 9P117 (MAZ-based TEL) routed the cables and hoses more or less equally from both rear sides of the vehicle. On the tracked TELs, there appears that some sort of small gantry or derrick was also used to support these cables and hoses (and appears to only be erected in preparation for launch).

At any rate, I don’t believe I’ve seen any really correct depiction of the hook ups for the cables and hoses on any of the many different builds of the Trumpeter kit.

@fromSalekhard:

Thanks, Yuri! There’s a lot of very useful information contained in those links. The missile diagram is also much appreciated.

Unfortunately for me, there don’t appear to be any clear photos or diagrams of the way the cables and hoses are hooked up to the tracked TELs in any of the pages.

Thank you for the assistance!

Just to clarify then - especially for such as I (sometimes a bit slow) - does that mean that the hoses/cables were completely absent when the equipement was in transit mode?

I have the venerable Dragon Scud B kit but am determined someday to do it justice; I was planning on a transit-type model in any case but I would like to know re this cabling conundrum. I have every sympathy Michael in your quest for the details as a missile in the firing position always looks more intimidating, and therefore interesting!

Such an installation is in the museum “Flying Heritage Collection”, Everett, Snohomish County, Washington, USA. I found 73 photos of her. Here are the samples.


Will it suit you? Download more? You may not have access to this album on the Russian VKontakte network.

Also posted a request for Karopka.

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Hi Brian,

Yes, for the MAZ TEL (9P117), the missile was transported but not rigged with the cables and hoses until the pre-surveyed launch site was reached. At that time, it was rigged for launch, tested, then erected. A final aiming process was accomplished (using the artillery reciprocal-lay method). The high-pressure hoses were disconnected, but the electrical cables remained attached until launch. Upon launch, the electrical cables all had quick-connect/release attachments that were connected to the launch platform by short chains. As the missile started to rise off the platform, the chains pulled the disconnect latches and the cables released from the missile.

For the tracked TEL, the process was somewhat different. The missiles were checked, fueled, and the warheads attached in a preparation area. The ready-to-launch missile was then loaded onto the tracked TEL using a crane. It was then rigged with the required cables and hoses, and the TEL moved to the final, pre-surveyed launch site. From this point, the process was the same for both types of TELs.

As far as I can tell, the tracked TELs were not used for regular transportation of the missiles. These were carried on semi-tractor trailers to the preparation areas. My understanding is that the tracked TELs were too rough on the delicate internal components of the missiles, so the missile battery made its road marches with the TELs unloaded and everything else truck borne.

So, missiles on the TEL for road marches to the launch site: “yes” for the MAZ-based 9P117 and “no” for the tracked 9P19.

Missiles on tracked TELs (either the 9P12 or the 2U218) as seen in the field for training or during parades are all training missiles. War-reserve missiles for those were handled separately and only brought to the tracked TELs within the preparation areas which were, by doctrine, within 3-5 kms of the planned and pre-surveyed launch sites. So, there were short marches conducted with the missiles fully rigged for launch conducted by the tracked TELs, but those should be considered the final short, tactical movements and not longer-range operational or strategic movements.

Thank you, again, Yuri!

Unfortunately, this particular museum example does not have the missile rigged with the cables and hoses as if in preparation for launch.

This is the real question for me: How and where these cables and hoses were attached to the tracked TEL (either the 8U218, seen here, or the 9P12)?

Using plentiful photos of the R-17 missiles loaded onto MAZ-based 9P117 TELs, I have a good understanding of the attachment of the cables and hoses to the missile, itself. These can also be traced from the missile back the MAZ 9P117 TEL to determine their attachment locations and points.

For anyone following along, the missile had 9 electrical cables - two gangs of three each plus 3 individual cables - and one set of three high-pressure hoses for a total of 12 cables and hoses. The question concerning the Trumpeter 9P12 kit is where were all of these attached to the tracked TEL?

It is totally possible that the two different tracked TELs, the 8U218 and the 9P12, had two different arrangements. The later, 9P12 might have had a modified arrangement that was possibly adopted for the MAZ-based 9P117 (with about half of the cables routed from opposite rear side corners to the missile.)

However, some fuzzy and indistinct photos of the 8U218 TELs suggest that there was a short gantry or davit-type thing that was temporarily erected on the left rear end that supported at least some of these cables or hoses (I’m tending to believe that this device supported the three high-pressure hoses). Photos also suggest that all of the rest of the cables and / or hoses also routed from this same general area. So, it’s also possible that the later 9P12 used some variation of this arrangement with all or most of the cables and hoses attached to the TEL around the left rear corner.

It’s quite frustrating since one might imagine that because the 9P12 TEL was used by several different countries and since there are a number of them in different museums, that somewhere the technical manuals are also available with the requisite diagrams for rigging the missiles for launch from the tracked TELs. One must imagine that the cable and hose connections are located behind the closed doors on the museum examples… If only someone had photos of these it might be possible to at least make a fair guess on the locations of the attachment points.

I will post up a working drawing later that diagrams the missile cable and hose attachments (and general side-to-side routing on the MAZ-based 9P117).

Nine cables and three hoses… 12 total attachment points for the R-17 missile. It shouldn’t be this hard to figure out where the other ends were attached to the 9P12.

Thanks Michael, very helpful.

So, if we’re lucky, Yuri or someone else might offer us a translation of the cable and hose connection callouts on this scrap view taken from the illustration Yuri posted earlier. (I’m not sure that I can make out all of the Cyrillic letters clearly enough to use Google Translate.)

An important thing to note is how the missile fins are numbered I, II, III and IV. This is a constant on all missiles that have their original markings on them, and their relative positions as the missiles are placed on the TELs never change.

(Edit - Draft 9P117 diagram deleted. See later post with updated / corrected diagram for 9P117 connections.)

This collage shows what the cable connectors look like. The two sets of three-cable gangs have the “blue amoeba” connectors on either end. These connectors have ring-shaped quick-release pulls. On the missile ends, these rings are connected to the launcher platform with short chains to disconnect those cables as the missile rises during launch. These ganged together cables are routed across the launcher platform close to its front and not directly under the missile’s exhaust cone (i.e. under fins number I and IV when the missile is erected).

The three, individual fin cables also have quick-release connectors on their fin ends, again with short pieces of chain to activate their latches. On some TELs these three cables are covered with a white insulation material. (I assume to protect them from the missile exhaust.)

I’ll do up another collage for the three high-pressure hoses and their connections. However, these were disconnected from the missile at some point in the launch preparation sequence after (I think) it was erected. They are present, though, once the missile has been connected up for launch before it’s erected.

So, this is all pretty straight forward to suss out on the 9P117 TEL. The R-17 presumably has the same cable and hose connection requirements for the tracked TELs, but where those connections were made on the TEL remains a mystery to me.

Edit: Here’re the high-pressure hoses as routed from the 9P117 TEL.

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I will look at this material a little later. I will translate the inscriptions on the diagram.

Look at this material [9K72 / R-17 - SS-1C/D/E SCUD-B/C/D](MilitaryRussia.Ru — отечественная военная техника (после 1945г.) | Статьи .html) and this R-11 / 8A61, R-11M / 8K11 - SS-1B SCUD-A and its discussion on forum.
where there is a link to a large photo archive, but without cables.

Here is the rocket documentation and links for downloading it.
Here is a small post and most importantly some description of the rocket connection (but only from the side of the rocket) (bold type above the penultimate picture). I sent him your request. We will wait for the result.

My brain is already melting. Need a little rest.
You are a very stubborn and meticulous person!

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From the top inscription "“Вид Н” (View H) clockwise

“Накладка под магнитные уровни” - Cover for magnetic levels

“Клапан для подвода сжатого воздуха к ампульным батареям” - Valve for supplying compressed air to ampoule batteries

“Отрывной штепсельный разъем ОША2 системы АПР” - Tear-off connector OSHA2 of the APR system

From the bottom inscription R320 clockwise

“Выхлопная труба” - Exhaust pipe

“Штепсельный разъем ОШО обогрева ГЧ” - Plug connector OSHO heating GCh

“Ш37” - Sh37

“Клапан заправки воздушных баллонов сжатым воздухом” - Valve for filling air cylinders with compressed air

“Отрывной штепсельный разъем ОША1 системы АПР” - Tear-off connector OSHA1 of the APR system

“Клапан заправочный пускового горючего” - Starting fuel filling valve

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Thanks, Yuri!

I’ll revise my diagram to reflect these designations for the various connections.

The technical information is interesting in its own right and does help getting the details on the model. For instance, it’s useful to know that of the three high-pressure hoses, two were for compressed air and one was for the “starting fluid.” Sh37 and Sh38 are the designations of the “amoeba” type cable connectors, while the tear-off connectors are used on the fins.

Here are the Sh37, Sh38 and fin cable “tear off” (OSHA1/ OSHA2/OSHO quick disconnect) connectors as shown in the rocket technical manual you linked to.

Ameoba connector

Fin Cable Connector

I understand correctly that the ideal option is to find a photo like this one?

Watch Ракетный щит Родины. (2 серия) - YouTube at 28:44 and 29:30
But I didn’t see any hoses.

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Yes, similar photos of the connections on the 9P12 (or 8U218) are what I’m hoping to find.

Alternatively, diagrams or drawings from the technical manuals that show these connections should also answer the question. Even a diagram of the tracked TEL similar to the one for the base of the rocket that indicate and identify the connections should also provide the answers.

Even though there are no hoses or cables shown in the video you linked, it does show some excellent and clear images (in color, no less) of the crews, officers and their uniforms, so it is very useful in its own right.

Thanks, again!

Dear God - and I thought putting the sling on SA 80 was complicated.

Seriously folks, if at the end of all this Michael comes up with a realtively easy to follow guide it will be well worth it.

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LOL! I know in the above photo it looks like a bowl of spaghetti forked onto the bottom of the missile, but if you refer to the colored wiring diagram that I posted, you can identify all of the visible cables and hoses.

For instance, we’re looking at the right rear corner, so attached to the vehicle are the five cables (the three-cable gang in red and the two green fin cables) on the right side of the wiring diagram. These five cables can be followed from under the little angled rain/blast shield, down and around over its top, and then on to cross the frame of the launch pad.

The blue-gray, three-cable gang “amoeba” connector visible between fins III and IV is the missile end of the blue cable gang attached to the opposite rear corner. Its attached cables are appearing through the frame of the launch pad from the opposite side. They have nothing to do with the five cables draped all over in the foreground.

Just to the rear/bottom of fin III are the three high-pressure hoses and the green fin cable to fin II. The high-pressure hoses come up from the opposite side of the launcher, and the fin cable comes up from the near side (as one of the mass of five already mentioned).

All the stuff that is dangling and draping down and all over is just excess cable. Once you know the start and end points for each of them, that mess is really inconsequential with no need to try to trace each individual piece of spaghetti.

It was all mind-boggling to me at first, but once you “see it,” it is actually not that complicated at all…

As long as you know the start and end points. Which for the tracked 9P12 TEL is my problem right now! LOL!

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Michael, you probably know these pics already…

https://477768.livejournal.com/7017575.html

If you don’t, I’m not sure they will help much, but who knows…

H.P.

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Thanks, Frenchy! Yuri sent me this link just yesterday via PM.

These photos show the 8U218 TEL (early TEL designed originally for the R11 missile and not for the R17). I also believe the missile shown being prepared is an early (perhaps prototype?) variant of the R17 (note the Sh37 “amoeba” three-cable connector attached high up on one side).

The more I study, the more it becomes apparent to me that the 8U218 TEL had many important detail differences from the later 9P12 TEL (designed for the R17 missile). There’s a lot more to the change than just the number of compressed air tanks visible on the sides.

Certainly, more research is needed to get a definitive answer on the cable and hose attachments for the 9P12 TEL (Trumpeter kit).

On a more positive note, I believe that, with these photos and the many walk-around albums available for the 8U218 TEL, it may be possible to trace the cables and make an educated guess that’s pretty accurate for the 8U218 + R17 combination.

I’m not sure though if that will be really applicable for the 9P12 + R17 combination. I suspect that the MAZ-based 2P117 TEL design evolved from the 9P12 TEL, so the 9P12 was likely more like the easily researched 2P117 than the early 8U218.

With the R17 missile representing such a major change from the R11 missile, common sense suggests to me that the 9P12 TEL had significant differences to accommodate the R17 while making launching it easier and quicker (than launching the R11 from the 8U218).

Thanks again!