Hello, I’m building a panzer IV G for a scene set in autumn/winter 1943 on eastern front. Did the road wheels usually have some kind of damage, like scratches? Also, would it be accurate to build it without schurzen (turret and sides) or did all such tanks categorically use schurzen by then?
The rubber on the wheels would sustain damage over time since they are rubber. And schurzen would have been in use to some degree but sections often fell off or got torn up busting through stuff.
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thank you. I was wondering if schurzen could be entirely absent, not even the “skeleton” on which it was mounted and absent from around the turret as well
Schürzen application began on March 19th, 1943. In addition to newly produced Panzer IV, “all tanks of this type already in service and under repair were to be fully equipped in the shortest possible time.” - Panzer IV and it’s Variants, Page 63.
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Typically. and I should put that “air quotes”, PZ III’s and IV’s would have the turret skirts intact, and the hull skirts in various stages of service, this being completely intact to damaged or missing skirts. I “think” the thought was to protect the command/gun elements, I think…
Hope that helps… I always dread the PzIV and all those wheels…
Please post updates
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I have a couple of photos of Mk IVs in the Cherkassy pocket with no shurzen, but most of them seem to have had shurzen on the turrets, and many (perhaps also most) had side skirts as well, but I’ve seen more than a few with turret skirts but not side skirts. Hope this helps…
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yeah, so many wheels… and it’s also my first tank model
One reason you often see tanks with the hull shurzen removed was the use of “winterketten” tracks. These were tracks with extended sides that stuck out past the shurzen. If the winterketten are being used, the shurzen have to be removed.
Ken
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You can see in this image from 1944; you can see the Winterketten tracks stocking out almost 10-12 inches from the fenders. you can also see the lack of the hanger rail for the Schurzen.
here’s another Panzer IV from the summer of 1944, equipped with the Schurzen. You can see how close it’s located to the fenders.
Knocked out Panzer IV. You can see the Winterketten tracks in full detail, along with the aplie Zimmerit coating
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You can get the tracks with the Winterketten via T-Rex Studio.
85029 1/35 PzKpfw III/IV Winterkette Version A-T-Rex Studio (t-rex-studio.com)
I’d like some of those but they cost as much as each of the kits I need them for.
Tankerken,
After all these years, I never thought of that. Thank you
I mean that, I wasn’t trying to be a Jack-a-lope
Do TRex do track for the Merkava Mk IV? I’m not sure they do - bummer.
The blue Merkava upgrade I see is the suspension upgrade for the Takom Mk1 and Mk2.
No problem, that’s what forums like this are for. I learn new stuff all the time. And I went many years without knowing about the winterketten tracks.
Ken
Maybe I’m reading this wrong, but I’m pretty sure talqualex doesn’t want any Schürzen at all, not even vestiges of Schürzen, so why are there so many photos of Schürzen being posted?
Yes, the use of Winterketten necessitates the removal of the hull Schürzen, but since this is talqualex’s first tank model ever, does he really want to spend an extra $45 plus shipping on state-of-the-art 3-D printed AM tracks as a work-around? Besides, even if the rails for the hull skirts have long been torn off or intentionally removed, the mudguard-mounted brackets still remain, or at least their “skeletons”, thus not conforming to talqualex’s original desire that there be none.
It is possible to have an Ausf G with turret Schürzen without hull skirts or their mounts at all, but this configuration still violates the “no Schürzen at all” clause that the OP desires for the time frame in question.
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From the responses given, and the supporting photos, it appears that most panzer IV had shurzen at this time, at least on the turret. That answers the original question. If talquanex still wants to build one without shurzen he can, thats up to him.
At this point he has not stated what kit, if any, he wants to build, or if he has already got a kit.
Ken
It has been said many times in many threads, but just to be that guy…
You can build your PzIV pink and blue if you want. It’s all your choice. For me, I really like the skirts on the turret. If you ever get the chance, PLEASE check out my PzIII, the whole beast is scratch-built in 1/25. And I included the turret skirts, just because.
Best of luck with your build
WF