How do you know the Ukrainians are telling you the (whole) truth?
3 Likes
Farmer: āDonāt worry, I have a tractorā¦ No need to carry all of that heavy gear and ammo eitherā¦ Donāt worry, Iāll take good care of it for youā¦ Donāt worry, just walk Northeast and everything will be fine. ā¦ Oh yeahā¦ Donāt forget your socks.ā
3 Likes
Oh donāt get me wrong I understand misinformation will be used by all concerned, however the sheer amount of vehicles that have seemed to be left raises all sorts of questions. The picture Frenchy posted of the BMD 4 above is a case in point. Even if they had staged that pic the BMD has to have been gotten from somewhere!
1 Like
I was watching a fair few clips last night, and there are a lot showing the dead crews in situ / near or hanging off the vehicles - but - there are a lot of other abandoned vehicles and I have wondered where the crews go ā¦ back to safe lines ? or just go to ground or exiting west ?
And another point, who is making the command decision to abandon these vehicles ?? is the CoC that bad or ineffectual on the ground ?
3 Likes
Regarding Russian casualties before the Invasion there were a fair number of reports of russia-has-mobile-crematoriums-that-evaporate-the-dead-report and from various other news media.
To my knowledge that hasnāt been substantiated or disproved yet.
1 Like
When one vehicle blows up the others will try to make a run for it.
If they are out of fuel the troops in, on or around them will dive for cover (well, except for the terminally bewildered ā¦). Run for the ditch and hope for survival. When the awful loud noises have stopped they will either try to walk into captivity (Go West Young Man) or go back where they came from and report that they have been annihilated by superior forces.
Deserting, or even being suspected of desertion, from the Russian military forces is NOT a smart career move ā¦
2 Likes
There are other videos of corpses sprinkled over the landscape.
I will NOT post any such videos here, I also have limits ā¦
3 Likes
I donāt, nor do I expect them to. Even the best of western media (BBC,etc,) rarely do. There are some individuals who do have their own agendas (āinvestigative journalistsā) but for the most part attempts at honesty and balance are undermined by ignorance, incompetence, and a tendency to exaggerate for effect. I have had the misfortune to be a little too close to some events that made the national (and international) media and while the basic facts were mostly correct the personal appraisals by correspondents rarely matched my own perception of what was happening. One simply extrapolates from such experiences a sort of filter which is automatically applied to all reporting, basically a mild cynicism which gets turned up when obvious BS is detected.
Regards,
M
2 Likes
Yes, some people gleefully witnessing the so-called ādemiseā of Russian forces in Ukraine, appear to be blissfully unaware that half of what theyāre seeing is probably fake.
Confirmation bias iād say.
Iām not an apologist for Putin or his forces either, far from it. But iāll tell you now, the Ukrainians are no angels, their President isnāt the virtuous hero heās being made out to be, and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.
Interesting story from John Simpson of the BBC today:
1 Like
How does that saying go? Something like:
In war truth is the first casualty.
Example sometimes even leaders get their facts all screwed up and totally wrong 
kamala-harris-again-says-us-is-supporting-ukraine-in-defense-of-the-nato-alliance
2 Likes
I think Iāve mentioned before that Iāve seen some pretty sickening pictures and videos of military casualties, but over the last few days Iāve been encountering more and more graphic depictions of civilian dead and wounded, and I find that worrying.
Regards,
M
It gets a pretty rough ride in peacetime tooā¦
Regards,
M
6 Likes
Hereās some serious wartime propaganda in my opinionā¦it does look like the spin machine is going full forwardā¦
ukraine-war-upended-chinas-plan-to-invade-taiwan-alleged-fsb-whistleblower-says
"The agent added that the (Russian) FSB is āseriously consideringā claiming that āthe battle on Ukrainian territory is a US war against China, in which the Americans simply set us up and used us.ā
āThe global clash between the US and China was inevitable,ā the agent wrote. āAfter the war with Ukraine (although I may avoid using the term āoperationā here), the cost of resources in the world, especially energy ones, has gone up. The main victim of such actions becomes China, to which (I can confirm) were given guarantees that everything will end quickly. Therefore, China behaved tolerant in the past. But that was before that.ā
What will be interesting and no doubt analysed to death is the Russian doctrinal method of how they conduct these Ops, from every angle and how things go pear shaped after any type of hiccup. As it looks like nothing has really changed in how they do things since Georgia, and then the Crimea annexation.
and again, it goes back to training, IA drills ā¦ or lack of in these casesā¦If they are abandoning vehicles and they know thereās a risk of them falling into Ukraine hands, do they have equipment denial procedures ? destroying a vehicle to deny use so it cant be re-flagged - we have seen (in abandoned vehicles- not destroyed) maps, personal weapon systems etc etcā¦ its actually interesting to see all this after years of being taught how to do it right ā¦
All the signs point at poor training, poor morale, no motivation and utter confusion.
Maybe they just panic when things start going BANG around them.
Seeing ghosts in the dark and imagining that they are heavily outnumbered and need to run for their lives
1 Like
I looked at my last post from 2am my time and apparently I have started naming my figures.
Note to Self: No posting after midnight.
LOL
When I see all the abandoned gear, specially the larger weps, I was thinking E & E (Escape & Evasion) Hard to hide a PKM or a large NOD in a pocket. Until I saw that last pic close up.
But leave bottle of Liquor? I think not. That crew is likely captured or deceasedā¦
3 Likes
H.P.
5 Likes
Bad drills propping his gat up against the side ā¦ Lay it down flat matey !! 
What can fall, will fall.
3 Likes