Space Shuttle Launch Complex 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)

[Dioramartin]

So if I understand correctly, the worst problem is really the 1:205 FSS tower is too short – I notice that its base is hidden behind the MLP from most angles, so I would build an extra module at the base to raise the tower to the right height. Presumably that would help correct the other misalignments up the tower.

I can’t see how anything at all can be done about the MLP being 1:200, impossible to increase in size by the necessary amounts.

While I feel your pain from a constructor’s viewpoint, your audience will never detect these relatively small discrepancies. I know that isn’t much consolation, but it is some!

[Spaceman]

Thanks Tim for trying to put yourself in my shoes.

But due to the exasperating scale dilemma of Revell’s Launch Tower kit (1:144), which is anything but 1:144, the initial building phase was really messy, especially cause I went from one swoon to the another.

The much too small MLP (1:200) went straight into the garbage can, because I’ve built the MLP modified into 1:160 with the help of David Maier’s Paper Kit, which I was satisfied with at first.

The problems with the too low FSS/RSS, which must match with the height of the MLP (1:160), I didn’t realize until much later, which you can reconstruct now.

[Spaceman]

Hello everybody,

because this problem situation from today’s perspective represents quite a bit more clearly as at the beginning, I’ve unearthed my old drawings again to recap the initial position again.

After has become clear that the initially envisaged stilts solution is not a suitable problem resolution, another solution had to be found.

One way out could be to increase the FSS tower by one floor, which we discussed in detail in our Raumcon forum, for what I created a more accurate drawing.

But this necessarily means that the RSS height must be adjusted accordingly too, which will not be so easy because of the complexity of its service structure with its many Walkways, stairs and crossings.

So I had to clean up my desk in order to develop myself better with calculator, ruler and pencil, as well as a series of drawings and photos.

Because unfortunately there are only few drawings with specific dimensions, I asked a friend from the Raumcon forum determine the main dimensions at his model, what he has done.

And then it could finally start with the new RSS drawing, and that meant again and again taking new measurements, converting the values, drawing, etc. …

At the same time I have also used Revell’s building instructions and from LVM Detail Kit Nr. 5 for the RSS, whereat the Revell-drawing (from the calculator right) is unfortunately still on the ancient state, which is incorrect.

In addition, the Revell building instructions in particular with regard to the connection of the RSS to the FSS are so spartan that the hat may go up.

By contrast, LVM instructions contain a fairly good and detailed drawing of the RSS (left), which seems to be quite to scale, where FSS and RSS should be increased to more closely match each to 6 mm.

That helps but only if you are satisfied with the small Revell-MLP (1: 200), but does not come into question.

In case of doubt, I then measured as a precaution every now and then the original component.

And so little by little this drawing came about,

and it first times does not depend on the final details.

And this drawing I will combine with the FSS drawing. Then we will see even better, whether or how FSS will fit with RSS after insertion of an additional FSS floor, whereon I’m very excited.

[Johnnych01]

That looks impressive test fitted with the shuttle and main booster … Outstanding work

[Spaceman]

Thanks John,

Yep, this sight spurs me on again and again and drives me forward.

[Spaceman]

Hello everybody,

in the meantime, I have taken the new, the Revell model corresponding drawing of RSS to make a few comparisons.

As you can see from this image, my previous RSS drawing (red) is slightly wider than the underlying new drawing, so away with it.

For further alignment of the FSS to the RSS and the envisaged raise of the FSS by one floor, it is now important, to find the right reference plane for the Shuttle stack (1:144) on the MLP (1:160), regardless of whether the MLP is standing on the Crawler (height 20’=6,1 m) or on the Pesdestals (22’=6.70 m).

And this reference plane is the [color=blue]RSS Mainfloor[/color] which must coincide with the end of the Orbiter’s Payload Bay (PLB). And both drawings precisely at this level are superimposed.

Marked in red is here the raise of the FSS to be carried out according to the assembly instruction by LVM, which is important but only when using the small Revell-MLP.

But it is really interesting, if then the tower comes into play.

As can be seen immediately, FSS and RSS slip clearly upwards due to the 160’s MLP and Crawler, whereby FSS Level 95 is not on a level with the MLP deck, but slightly higher. And although in the FSS the additional (13th FSS floor]() is taken into account already, a height difference has resulted at the bottom of the foot, which has yet to be matched.

To match this, I have pulled the FSS so far down, that Level 95 is now on a level with the MLP deck. And then I also increased the connection structure between FSS and RSS to one raster.

Accordingly now even the outer support frame of the RSS has to be raised and an additional staircase has to be installed in the local stairwell.

These are in my opinion first of all the necessary changes one will probably not get around. On the one hand one has to consider the transitions and walkways between FSS and RSS more closely and hope that there are no unsolvable problems. And then at the other hand the connection of the GOX Vent Arm needs a closer look too.

But it’s a start, at least, and that’s why I’m now looking forward to your advice and suggestions and looking out for everything, by consent to slating.

[Spaceman]

Hello folks,

ups, you’re apparently all speechless, but I admit, the connections are rather complicated.

Today I’ll look a little bit closer at the attachment of the GOX Vent Arm (OVA) at the FSS.

After the drawings I know the tip of the ET is on a level with Level 275 (227’ = 69,2 m).

But from the reality I must inevitably say goodbye in some places like this, finally we live in Revell’s crazy world of compromises. And so the ET-tip would lie according to the current state slightly above the “penultimate” level, wherewith I can live, what the heck …

In order to remain in the previous model scale and for better comparison, I have assembled temporarily the OVA with the Beanie Cap from the Revell kit.

And as can be seen easily, Revell’s rustic swing arm is miles away from the reality, at least regarding its structure which is why I’m going to probably scratch build it rather later.

Source: NASA

The underlying identical sketch I have now transferred 1:1 to the overview drawing and set with the Beanie Cap on the ET, which is why the arm hangs back in the air, but what should not disturb us.

More important is the fact that the arm is located approximately at the correct height, whereby the situation is relaxed yet clear.

And here you can see the situation a little more clearly. Whether the length of the OVA is sufficient, will still have to show.

That’s it for today, next I’m going to look at the RSS from the side to see how the FSS raise affects especially on the lateral support frame with the staircase.

[Spaceman]

Hello everybody,

and so now for adaptation of the RSS, from which you can see here is a side view, what it looked like at that time in the STS-6. Since there were e.g. yet not Weather Protection System (WPS), which was retrofitted until much later.

Source: NASA

And from this side view I now need also a drawing. The RSS Mainfloor this time is again the reference plane and beneath the MLP stands at the same distance on Pedestals.

For this purpose, the lateral support frame with the local staircase must now be made to fit, because by increasing the FSS must both inevitably be increased by the remaining amount.

While in the Revell kit there are still no stairs, but only the staircase as a grid frame, in the LVM Detail Kit No. 5 are included for both relevant PE parts, and also two trucks (Resin-parts, see above), the front truck even with cab.

This is the corresponding LVM assembly guide, but this time everything without explaining text.

And here are now first two possibilities of adapting the support frame, wherein the cross struts of the frame should match the floors of staircase.

As one can see, for the necessary raise must be scratch built a new support frame, and an additional 7th stair is needed, but both should be feasible.

By odd number of floors one can now choose between two versions, either as in this image, four floors below the middle transverse strut, and three above,

or three floors below and four above.

The distances between the two struts are in both cases now no longer inevitably the same, but it looks in my opinion still better than if one would select same distances. Because then the middle strut would lie in the middle of the middle floor, which would not result a good picture.

Personally, I’d better like the first proposal.

But maybe there are other suggestions, what do you think?

[Dioramartin]

Compromise is the name of the game for sure, your height adjustments look reasonable to my untrained eye. That swing arm is chunky – but the real thing looks very delicate if you’re going to scratch-build it. More compromise required there too probably. As for the LVM – yes the first option looks better

[Spaceman]

Thanks Tim for your helpful thoughts,

the phase of discovering and understanding the scale problems of the Revell Launch Tower Kit and finding workable compromise solutions including some emergency surgeries was frustrating, quite difficult and took a lot of time.

But I always found a way out and bit through.

[Spaceman]

Hello everybody,

meanwhile I had noticed some new incongruities of the Revell kit, to which I want to point out briefly.

As you can see in the image of the RSS back at the time of STS-6, there is an intermediate space between the Hoist Equipment Room (HER) and the Elevator Shaft through which extends the lateral tubular supporting construction.

The HER is the room, in which the 90 ton crane is located, with which the Payload Canister is pulled up in front of the Payload Changeout Room (PCR) entrance over an oblique cable pull, extending through the Reaction Control System Room (RCS Room).

Source: NASA

In contrast in the Revell kit the elevator shaft connects directly seamlessly to the HER, as you can see in this image of the model, what really hurts.

Apart from the many lamps that are totally out of place there, the HER does not close directly to the RCS Room, but has a significant distance, as in this image of the STS-6 is seen here.

Source: NASA

In this view from the FSS on the RSS you can also see very nicely the room layout behind the RCS Room and the two oblique crane cables.

Source: NASA

And so there are still some other incongruities.

In the first image, one can see at the back the two thick insulated HVAC DUCT pipes of the huge air-conditioning technique of the PCR, coming from the bottom of the “Large-capacity air conditioning” (HVAC PLENUM) which discharge into the PCR at the upper end what can also be seen in this drawing again.

Source: capcomespace.net

And these two pipes are also arranged wrong in the Revell model, as can be clearly seen in the second image. In the LVM Detail Kit however that has already been corrected.

And then I have noticed the simplified RSS framework as distinct from the original, which is indicated only by rectangular profiles on the walls, which is also wrong and looks pretty rustic, like so many others.

Here, the rear wall,

and here the side walls and front side parts.

But as you can see on closer inspection of the original images, the whole PCR complex sits as in a “cage” made of square profiles, tubes and I-beams, which has a certain distance from the actual building wall, which in turn is reinforced by narrow profiles. And this gap Revell has completely ignored, whereby the lateral tubular frame structures sit directly on the walls.

Source: NASA

What one should now correct of all that would have to be considered again in more detail, but at least the subdivision of the upper rooms, I would think.

Otherwise, one definitely had to make sure that thereby the implementation of many LVM attachments is not impeded because that would be a pity. And there are quite a lot of stairs, walkways, etc. left and right of PCR.

Source: capcomespace.net

That’s it for today with the fault analysis.

[Spaceman]

Hi everybody,

and here is the next step of the fault analysis.

As I said and you have seen previously, these rectangular profiles on the PCR walls are just too clumsy and also wrong.

Here, on both sidewalls and on the two front strips all thicker profiles are throughout 2,8 mm wide and 2,0 mm high. And all thin profiles are 1,5 mm wide and about 0,7 mm high.

And on the back side it looks the same.

Okay, still a lot of LVM PE accessories will be installed on the sides of the PCR later, whereby some of the rudeness can be concealed. But in particular on the less built-up back side a filigree detailing would be worthwhile in any case, especially since no major complications would result.

With this chunky rectangular profiles on the walls, that just do not like me, the RSS and in particular the central PCR part looks somehow too coarse.

In this context I have reminded again to the building report of a friend in our German forum (Raumcon) and followed his former first steps in the construction of the RSS. And here this image indicates exactly what I mean.

Especially since these profiles in the enclosing PCR frame construction mainly are tubes, now I have gotten to the bottom of the matter and have added the diameters of the corresponding profiles in the already known images of the PCR walls.

Here are first of all the side walls and front wall strips. What first stands out, are the two missing slanted 18’’ tubes and the top two 10’’ tubes in the side strip, which must run the other way round.

The profile W27x128 (27’‘x10’') is an I-Beam, as you can see here.

Source: flickr.com (Andrew Scheer)

The horizontal struts (presumably I-Beams) directly seated on the wall panels I have estimated from photos to approximately 7’', which would correspond to a width of about 1 mm (1:168). The other dimensions are needed to convert, if one would think about scratch building.

Then I have noticed that the height of Revell PCR in accordance with the stack corresponds to about 1:140, the width however, is only about 1:175.

And on the back panel, there are those profiles here, being at a comparable level (about 1:140) whose width is about 1:168.

Next time I will go into detail of the diameter of the lateral support structures right and left of the PCR, which have also partly larger deviations from reality, which I have not noticed so far.

In any case, is already quite clear that the RSS would get a much more pleasant and more realistic look, if one would correct those things.

[Johnnych01]

The work rounds are looking very good and still keeping it all looking perfect. I agree with Tim on the LVM for what its worth. I think this is easily one if not the most comprehensive and attention to detail builds I have seen here in the forums. It really is a labour of love … Superb work

[Spaceman]

Thanks John for your repeated praise for my work, I try to give my best.

[Spaceman]

Hello everybody,

almost I had resigned myself to the fact that the place behind the RCS Room would be too closely, still somehow to separate the HER, but what I absolutely would not like.

And because this has left no rest, I have wasted some brainpower again and puzzled out the following solution for the gaps around the HER which should actually be feasible in principle.

The impetus for this solution I have got by these images of an old friend in the Raumcon Forum, I’ve remembered, who wanted be building the Launch Pad 39B, whose construction is not quite identical to Pad 39A.

He had once made a similar attempt, as can be seen here,

but he had installed the lateral elevator shaft flush with the PCR, which is not quite right.

And this solution possibility has been always in my mind.

The question of whether in fact a separation of the lift shaft from the PCR should be done, which would actually be correct, I will first times let still open.

How here again be seen, but this gap is actually present, and at least on the back clearly visible,

Source: NASA

because between the lateral tubes of the frame construction as well as cable channels run, as can be seen nicely in the image of STS-1. And then it looks as if the HER is even slightly higher than the elevator shaft.

Source: NASA

After my previous view, the connection of the staircase made of the LVM parts located in front of the elevator shaft in principle should not be hindered by this modification, as far as one can see from the LVM-building instructions.

As far as for today.

[Spaceman]

Hello everybody,

and so it not becomes boring, also on the lateral support structures right and left of the PCR there are similar deviations of the diameter/dimensions of Revell’s profiles from the real structure.

So here’s first the south-facing support structure of the RSS, left the real tube diameters and down-scaled values (1:168), and right Revell’s wrong dimensions.

Particularly striking are the too thin central 18’’ and 22’’ struts given the huge RSS structure. And why Revell has just replaced the lower 24’’ tubes through these I-beams, will also remain a mystery.
And that probably will not look otherwise on the right side, which I’ll check next time.

The question remains, how to deal with these thin rods, probably amputate …

But that is still not enough, during intense viewing of RSS images around the Elevator shaft I noticed that Revell has also strongly simplified the shaft.

Best to see is it in this STS-6 image. The side wall of the elevator shaft is only at the top of the engine room throughout planar.

[color=blue]Source: NASA[/color]

Further down this wall runs from the middle slanting forward to the PCR, which can be seen clearly by the changing light/shadow. Maybe it’s also angled shortly in front of the wall.

Accordingly, the Revell lift shaft is constructed incorrectly. Therefore, the lower doors sit in the shaft unlike the upper door in the front wall of the machine room probably in these slanting floor walls in front of the local staircase, as I have marked blue in this STS-1 photo.

Source: NASA

This wrong construction of the elevator shaft LVM Studios have taken over in Detail Kit No. 5 and adapted to their stairwell made of PE parts, as can be seen here in the LVM building instructions.

And thus to another Revell error.

In the lower part of the elevator shaft can be seen six inclined floors doors, and even a 7th door at the top in the machine room.

Source: NASA

In the Revell kit, on the other hand, there are only five floors with the associated doors in the lower part of the elevator shaft, what LVM has taken over, as one can see here based on the five PE doors in the RSS shell of building, which was built by my friend Thomas Emberger (golgi863) from our German Raumcon Forum, what means that one floor is missing.

Source: forum.raumfahrer.net (golgi863)

BTW, after I had infected him with my STS-6 project back then, Thomas was building the same Launch Pad 39A but with Discovey STS-41-D.

Due to the close relationship between our two projects, we had a close and intensive exchange of ideas and experiences for two years, what continually had pushed us and led to new ideas as well as great detailed and problem solutions.

Unfortunately he died far too early in 2017, which was a brutal lost and turning point for everyone, especially for his family.

His wife and his son had no direct connection to his project, which is why both of them would have liked me to take over his unfinished project at the time, as they couldn’t do anything with it.

In consideration of this, after careful consideration, I decided that it would perhaps also be in his sense to at least partially preserve his model building heritage, if I included some of his assemblies such as the already illuminated FSS platforms and the Hammerhead Crane as well the PE Stairs for the tower, etc. would integrate into my launch pad model and thus posthumously document and honor his building skills for everyone to see, which I then have done.

But back to Revell’s kit, because that’s still not the end of the chain of errors.

Maybe that’s not been clear enough with the inclined extension of the front wall below the upper cut-out for the angled strut of the support structure.

Therefore, I show here again an image of the dismantling of Pad 39B, where you can better see what I mean, because not so much parts are surrounding now.

Source: flickr.com (Andrew Scheer)

In my opinion, one can recognize the difference between the position of the upper fully opened and the bottom slightly opened doors in the inclined elevator shaft wall clearly.

And with the help of this photo I have tried to draw in the lift shaft into the RSS shell of building as it should look like, which then gives a more realistic picture. The doors I’ve omitted for simplicity.

Now I hope that possible lacks of clarity and doubts could become eliminated, if not, then let me know please.

[Spaceman]

Hi everybody,

with respect to the wrong profiles on the PCR walls it looks a bit more difficult, as one can see from this comparison of Revell’s profiles with the reality.

Left the real dimensions and down-scaled values (1:168), and right the crazy Revell dimensions.

That’s why I have probably to scratch build the complete PCR.

But as if I had known it, it becomes more trickier, now I was almost falling for an error of LVM Studios, because this RSS image of my friend has confused me.

And in this regard I have to correct one of my posts specifically to the stairwell in front of the elevator shaft, with regard to the number of floors in the Revell kit or LVM Kit, which is why I want to clarify again.

Fact is namely that in the Revell kit no floor is missing, but there is one too much.

This was shown by a friend in our German Raumcon forum some time ago with this photo-montage.

Source: raumfahrer.net (Halbtoter)

As one can see, in the lower part the stairwell above the RSS Main Floor there are four floors and in the upper part three, a total of seven floors. Revell (left) has in both parts four floors, a total of eight, and thus one floor too much.

As you can also see, all the Revell floors have the same height, while in reality the upper three floors are each slightly higher than the bottom four.

And now to this stairwell in the LVM Detail Kit No. 5, and a surprising finding.

After I had looked at the corresponding PE-parts, I thought so at first still that I had miscounted me, but it was not like that.

To my amazement the stairwell of LVM has only six uniformly high levels above the RSS Main Floor, but that is now clearly one floor too little!

Why LVM has solved it in this way and not correctly is not comprehensible as the fact that there are only five doors in the elevator shaft.

Source: LVM Studios

As you can see it, unfortunately, not only Revell had problems with his kit.

Now the only question is, whether one is content with this fact and build the LVM kit OOB, or how to deal with it. That’s why the Launch Pad no longer becomes true to original.

But since I will rebuild the elevator shaft anyway, maybe I think about a cleverer solution of the stairwell, especially since I also have to adapt the LVM tier floors to the inclined wall.

Time will tell …

[Spaceman]

Hi everybody,

once again, the staircase in front of the elevator shaft, which LVM has constructed incorrectly, actually even falser than Revell, if you look at it closely, what I want to clarify here again.

The Revell stairwell has in the lower and upper part (above the RSS Main Floor), in each case four floors, what is one too many in the upper part because there are only three floors there.

The LVM stairwell, however, is correct in the upper part with three floors, but wrong in the lower part with only three floors.

The correct solution would be a superimposed arrangement with the Revell solution in the lower part and the LVM solution in the upper part, because then the stairwell would actually have seven floors in the correct arrangement.

The question remains, how to solve the problem …

Therefore, one should actually require a rework by LVM, in view of the money, what the kits have cost.

Then It would have been better if they had left it at the reproduction of the Revell stairwell, in which then at least the lower part would have been correct.

After further research also the local conditions in the gap behind the RCS Room have further clarified.

The HER has the following dimensions, length 36’ (north-south: 10,97 m), width 28’ (8,53 m), height 14’ (4,27 m) and is thus slightly higher than in my previous basic sketch, which looks something like this.

Here is another view of the gap between the RCS Room and HER. On it one see that there is still an anteroom located in front of the HER, which is slightly lower and shorter and fills about half of the intermediate space. Out of it at the top a cable duct leads into the RCS Room.

Source: NASA

This drawing should illustrate this something.

Source: capcomespace.com

The interesting question for me was now again, whether this at the time of STS-6 already looked like that, because some rooms on the RSS have been installed only later, such as on the west and south sides of the RSS Main Floor behind the PCR.

Therefore I was glad that I have found after a long search this old black and white photo here from 1980, which proves that it at the time actually already gave this anteroom.

Source: NASA

And here still for comparing the present state from a different point of view.

Source: NASA

In order nothing stands in the way for an appropriate reconstruction of the RSS.

[Spaceman]

Hello everybody,

after the front and side view I have now also drawn a plan view, which should help me especially with the planned modification of the RSS-rooms, and there was again a little surprise.

For a rough orientation this Street-view image of the Pad 39A was very helpful.

Source: google.de/maps

And this here is firstly the unchanged Revell arrangement where I intend to change both the PCR and the elevator shaft and HER and thus adapt more to the reality.

And after drawing in the truck rails bow, I noticed immediately that the rear truck (position 1) would stand next to the truck rails, what obviously cannot be, since I also still intend to plan a diorama.

All other do not need to bother and can certainly let it be like that.

To put now the truck from position 1 to 2 on the truck rails, one could now easily put the outer support frame at a slight angle under the support structure, what would then surely look modestly because of the overhang.

Since I was first surprised, I checked the disassembly plans, and thereafter the outer support frame (line 7) is actually slightly inclined backwards, which I had not observed so far.

Source: NASA

Here are the two supporting frame components with dimensions, part 45 is the front frame, the rear is part 46, both of which have the same structure, which is not correct.

As one can see, the difference is 4’ (1,22 m), which corresponds about 7 mm (1:168).

Strictly speaking one would intervene in the supporting structure and extend the outer raster of the front frame (part 45) what would be absolutely feasible.

But since these two parts would have to be reworked anyway and are already on the to-do list,

which could then be done the same in one go.

[Johnnych01]

Always love the updates and seeing just how much detail it is possible for people to do with the right references and an unbelievable amount of determination.