As I’m getting closer to finishing my ongoing project, I’m wondering about the best way to fix the model on its base. I cannot find a definitive answer online or on this forum’s archive so far, and it seems that CA glue would do okay with vinyl tires, but I’m scared it’s going to ruin something…
What’s your advice?
I would just use CA glue. I just used it to glue everything down on my M3A3 CFV Maintenance dio. It works fine and holds great. Use a small amount on each point you want to glue down. If you want to make it more secure, you can drill a small hole in the bottom of each part you want to glue and a corresponding hole in the base and use a piece of wire or pin to pin them together as well.
Thanks! I might combine CA glue with a small pin in the tire.
Next time, I’ll plan ahead! It definitely did not cross my mind at the early stage. Now, I’m scared of damaging something.
You may also use epoxy glue, quite strong and allowing more time to position the kit.
Great looking project,great details,sometimes I don’t,sometimes I just place the vehicle,I don’t really move the piece,so it works for me at times
You can drill 2 small holes in the base right behind a tire. run a piece of black thread or clear fishing line up through the hole, over the axle and back down through the other hole and tie it down. if later you want to take off the model for some reason, just cut the string.
FWIW, I’ve always found that PVA, either straight out the bottle or diluted with water, artist’s matt medium or Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement (basically pre-thinned PVA with some wetting agents to make it flow better) all work quite well. None of them will damage the model, and both PVA options are “reversable” (you can redissolve the glue with water to remove the model if needed or desired). Almost every model that’s on a base that I’ve built for myself over the past 50+ years has been (and still remains) attached to the base with one of these glues.
I also like the water-based glues because they’re very compatible with the water-based groundwork materials and paints that I normally use to make my terrain bases. Not a major concern, but it can help to speed things up so that it’s not absolutely necessary to wait for the terrain construction to fully dry and cure before adding the model(s).
However, on glass mirror bases, I do use very small drops of clear epoxy (mostly aircraft models). If the model has to be held down with any degree of force (like making the wheels and tracks conform with the terrain), I use a bolt, washers and nut passed through the bottom of the model and through to the bottom of the base. (I also use this method on models that are commission builds on finished wood bases without any terrain textures.)
On a model like your Land Rover, I’d probably use drops of undiluted PVA under each wheel and then clean up any squeeze out with a small brush and water. PVA can dry glossy, so I’d be prepared to spray a little clear matt at the attachment areas if there were any “glossies.” Remember that any adhesive-type glue you use is:
Only as strong as the dried / cured glue, itself. The strength of the glue joint is a factor of the mass / volume of the dried / cured glue. and…
Is only as strong as the substrate the glue is attached to. Usually, the substrate will give way before the dried / cure glue will.
This means, that your attachment points are really only as strong as the paint on the two surfaces that are attached to each other. So, even if you use CA or epoxy (which are often, equal mass to equal mass, stronger than PVA) are still only as strong as the paint bonding to the glued surfaces. For this reason, PVA is pretty much all you need. Once dried fully, it will usually peal the paint off of the plastic rather than the glue, itself, breaking.
CA has sheer issues that can make it quite weak. Lots of tensile strength, but very poor sheer strength, so cured CA will often break at the joint with any sideways shock or force. Epoxy has excellent tensile and sheer strength but can be hard to clean up any squeeze out and cannot be reversed (and any squeeze out will be glossy and visible.) For any given mass of glue, epoxy will be stronger than PVA. Again, though, an epoxy joint is usually only as strong as the substrate materials (usually the paint). So, the substrate is almost always the controlling factor in how strong the final joint actually is and not the kind of glue used.
So, in general, I’ve found that PVA (aka “white glue”) is plenty strong to secure almost every model down to its base.
I’ve always used straight PVA glue. It has never failed.
What a great answer; thanks a lot!
I’ve been discovering the versatile use of PVA glue in scale modeling, and it might indeed be the best option here.
Your comments on the strength of the substrate is very good: the glue/paint mix mimicking concrete for the dock has a rather weak bond with the XPS foam…
Your comment about acrylic products (e.g., matte medium, acrylic glue) is interesting. I watched a video last night suggesting that matte medium is the best way to glue together pre-painted parts (when acrylic paint was used). Would that work here? Would acrylic transparent glue for clear parts work as well? I’m gonna go with PVA but I’m curious!
Thanks again! Best answer so far
Whatever glue you use I would pin it as well.
The acrylic mediums are all pretty much the same, varying mostly in their viscosity and, once dry, their sheen. Their bonding strength is a bit more than PVA, and once dry they are waterproof whereas PVA can be re-dissolved using water. In the same class would be clear acrylic gel mediums which are (as far as I can tell) identical to acrylic glues sold to hold clear parts. None of them will harm dried acrylic paints (what you would be doing is basically putting more acrylic “paint” on top of the earlier paint layer). Until they dry, the excess can be cleaned up with water.
Textured acrylic mediums are pretty much the clear gel medium with the texture aggregate added to it, so they will dry the color of the aggregate to achieve the texture. They will not hurt underlying paints and will also remain waterproof once dry. I like these for adding 3D weathering textures particularly during assembly. Because they dry so clear, I often add a dash of dry pigments just so that I can see where I’ve added the textures. I find this very useful for lower hulls and suspensions when the best access down into areas is as they’re being assembled. The acrylic textures are very durable once dry, so they withstand subsequent handling. They also anchor later layers of 3D textures, like pigment mixtures.
I use acrylic adhesives all the time for light-duty final assembly of small parts (especially pre-painted parts, like tools and other storage and for clear parts, like windshields and light lenses). They also work well to glue other things like PE nuts, bolts and rivets. Much less “fiddly” than using CA glues for the same purpose.
This is great stuff. I’v never heard this before.
Thank you so much, Michael. Very interesting and clearly explained!
All great answers here, espicially the use of PVA but for me I would use epoxy glue, such as 2 part JB Weld. Its not really reversible but it’s not coming off again either. Its very strong and I sometimes mix it to the consistency of putty so it can be used as a filler too (and painted). I wouldn’t trust a heavy model to be attached with CA glue. Been there done that…
Just be sure that the epoxy is attached to the kit part plastic and the terrain substrate material and not to the paint on those surfaces. This might require scraping away the paint layers at the attachment points. If the epoxy is only adhering the two painted surfaces together, then the actual strength of the joint is really only the strength of the paint adhesion on one or both of the surfaces.
True, but isnt the the case with all of them including PVA?
I think I need to get with you on more pointers with CA type glues as I still hate using them. Then, when they do adhere I feel their bond sometimes fails me in the end so half the time I go back and use epoxy glue to fix a CA glue failure, which might be why I just prefer to use epoxy now. It’s to the point where I must be missing something regarding CA glues… I mean, I know CA is strong but they tend to be weak with shearing type forces or quick impacts, which with my building style can happen alot lol…. So need to learn from the best!
The biggest problem with epoxy is you have two parts to mix but I have gotten good at mixing just tiny amounts at a time from larger globs on a palate and adding them to the joints using toothpics and I swear you can use water for cleanup and even diluting, but still experimenting on all of that. So for me it makes cleaning up glue marks easier than the other glues, as long as you do so before it sets.
Hope all is well.
Indeed. That’s why using epoxy is often over-kill. The net strength of the joint is not any greater than if PVA or an acrylic adhesive is used, but without the advantages of being able to reverse the joint (PVA) or water cleanup of any squeeze out (both PVA and acrylic).
Sometimes epoxy does have advantages (particularly heavy models coupled with mechanical joint reinforcements like metal pins at the gluing points). On bases that are going to replicate water effects (puddles, shiny, sloppy mud, wet pavement, or water, itself), the downside of dealing with epoxy squeeze out is pretty moot (maybe even an advantage). Other times, the available attachment points are so small that a combination of pins and epoxy (or just epoxy, like a glass mirror base) make using epoxy the best option.
Denatured alcohol is the thinner / reducer of choice to cleanup uncured epoxy. Acetone or lacquer thinner will also work, but those will almost certainly damage the model finish. Denatured alcohol will usually not cause any harm to lacquer, enamel, of acrylic finishes.
However, the advantages of easy working and cleanup with totally adequate gross joint strength usually make me select PVA or an acrylic adhesive. For instance, on tracked AFVs with movable link-to-link tracks, glueing the model down while also gluing the wheels and tracks together in the suspension along with glueing the bottom of the tracks to the terrain makes an overall better assembly - model to base - and the ease of cleaning up all of those wheel to track gluing points far outweighs any possible additional strength that epoxy might add and allows all of that suspension consolidation and base attachment to be done at the same time.
Hey, good idea to use denatured alcohol as thinner/cleanup, so even Tamiya thinner would work in a pinch (I have a tone of that over denatured alcohol). I was just getting lucky with using water, which was kind of working okay as long as it hadn’t hardened yet but will switch over to alcohol based products. Thanks again for your detailed advice!
I do quite a bit of work with epoxies to glass bed firearms and repair gun stocks, so I also spend a lot of time cleaning up epoxy squeeze out and other similar tasks since - like with modeling - precision and neatness counts a huge amount. Denatured alcohol is the solvent of choice for epoxy clean up - hands, tools, gun parts and stocks. I’ve never tried to use IPA (isopropyl alcohol - not the craft beer!). I suspect that it will work, but I do know that denatured alcohol does work.
Although this discussion has been about attaching models to bases, I would note that I do use epoxy often with PE, resin and white metal model parts (as well as in gunsmithing), so I’m not knocking epoxy in general, just offering up my experience with using it to attach models to landscaped terrain on bases.
All of these suggestions will work. I’ve secured tanks to the bottom of boxes for transport to Asia by using twist ties. But here’s a question you might ask yourself - if you’re securing an aircraft to the base using any of these methods, and you even slightly bump the wing tip, (or some jackass at a contest does) that’s an awful lot of leverage applied to the weakest part of the model…